Episode 1: i might open, i might knock

#rivalstolovers #pwp 

This week on Sex Sells, em and rainbow discuss episode one of Heated Rivalry, "Rookies", exploring themes of intimacy, miscommunication, and rivals to lovers as a well worn fanfic trope. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:09

Hello everyone, I'm Rainbow They She. And I'm Em, and this is episode one of Sex Sells, a Heated Rivalry podcast. Woohoo! We're back in the studio, baby. We're very excited.

Speaker 2 0:21

Yes, we wanted to talk about heated rivalry for quite a few reasons.

Speaker 1 0:25

Yeah, we are both queer ladies who loved the show like a lot of other people did.

Speaker 2 0:32

And we've always loved queer stories, gay romance, yaoi, if you will.

Speaker 1 0:38

Yeah, and I think between how much we loved the show and then also all of the like fandom discussions, we really wanted to dive into all of that. And so we're going to, if you didn't watch our little trailer episode that dropped yesterday, basically we're going to go episode by episode. So we're talking episode one today of the show. And, you know, it's not gonna be a scene-by-sene recap. It's more we're just going to talk about, you know, scenes that stood out to us and kind of general themes of the show. And as we said, we're queer. We're gonna be looking at this from a very queer angle and a queer fandom type of angle. So if you don't know about AO3, aka archive of our own, get familiar. With every episode, we're going to have hashtags like AO3 uses to find different kinds of fix. So this episode's hashtags are hashtag rivals to lovers and hashtag PWP, which if you don't know, if you're not in the know, stands for porn without plot. And we're gonna talk about is heated rivalry porn without plot? Spoiler alert, no. No, it's not.

Speaker 2 1:42

But a lot of people reacted like it was, and we're gonna get into maybe why and well, and also I think we can just talk about why we named this podcast Sex Cells. I mean, I do, I think we have to point out that um Connor Story and Hudson Williams, who play Ilya and Shane, they got tattoos of Sex Cells, um, which I love when actors do a project together and they get matching tattoos. Um, but and and I think that, you know, I I don't know their exact reasons for getting that, but I thought Sex Cells was a great name for this podcast because I think the first two episodes really do sell you on like this is hot. Like this is this is gay sex, which in our very like puritanical homophobic world, it's like scandalous. It's not just sex, it's not Bridgerton, it's gay sex.

Speaker 2:27

Gay sex.

Speaker 1 2:28

Gay people are having sex, and the whole show is just porn, which it's not, no, but you know, those first two episodes dropped together, yes, and they are, I think, the most sex-heavy. Yes. And so the initial reaction, yeah, there was this like dismissal of like, oh, it's it's feticization and it's porn, and it's just for porn-brained straight women, which I think is also false and misogynistic.

Speaker 2 2:52

Yeah, it's for wine moms who just want to get a little horny watching two young dudes fuck, which it's like okay.

Speaker 1 2:59

That's something that I really resent. A lot of people were saying, like, it's for straight women, and and people really still can't wrap their minds around like lesbians being into a story about like two gay men. Yeah. Um, and there's actually a great scene from The Kids All Are All Right, which I meant to to watch again. I'm gonna watch it for next episode where like the one mom, like I think the kid finds gay porn. Did you ever watch this movie? No, their kid finds gay porn, and the lesbian, one of the lesbian moms kind of tries to explain why lesbians like gay sex. So it's very much a thing. We're here, we exist. Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:33

Well, and and obviously we can't speak for all lesbians or all queer women or anything.

Speaker 1 3:37

Absolutely not. I mean, I my sister is also very queer, and she she hasn't watched it yet because she really likes to watch more, you know, lesbian content and Yuri content. Like even with fanfic, she she prefers that. And that I think it really just goes from person to person what your preference is.

Speaker 2 3:55

Well, I think there's a conversation to be had about like the labeling that we use and how like yes, labels can be very helpful for people, but I think often we, you know, it's it's the don't put me in a box thing. I know that's really like overblown, but it really is like we put people in this box of like you're a lesbian, that means that like it means all of these things about you. And it's like, actually, that's not true. People are very complex and there's so much, so much that goes into their experiences. For me, I think one of the reasons I like watching gay men is because I I feel that they are part of my community, like the queer community, and I like to see queerness represented, whether it's gay men, lesbians, trans people, non-binary, bisexual, asexual.

Speaker 1 4:35

I just don't think it's that odd for someone in the queer community to watch a show about other gay people, even if it's not your box. Like, I don't know why it's so sinister for a woman or whatever, someone who's not a gay man to enjoy this content. That seems very odd. Yes. Why do we want it to stay in a small bubble? Like, there's pros and cons of it being in the mainstream, but let's get into the episode.

Speaker 2 4:58

Yes. Well, before we get into the episode, I just want to say on the subject of this being for straight women, the book that the show is based on is written by a bisexual woman. The show is written and directed by a gay man. The idea that these queer people made this for straight people, I think is just ridiculous. Yes. I I think it's ridiculous. And we're gonna get into it, and I think the first thing we should talk about is the sex cells of it all.

Speaker 1 5:21

So as I said, the first two episodes are very sex heavy, especially this first one. Um, and there's also like a reason for that. Yes. And we're gonna get into it, and we're gonna get into why it works so well. Like, what is it about, you know? I don't think that we like these scenes just because we're we're porn brained. I think that people just like love and chemistry and romance, and chemistry is something that these two actors have in spades.

Speaker 2 5:47

I I think we need to talk about the gym scene, the hotel gym scene, which was released as a teaser before the show came out.

Speaker 1 5:53

Yeah, and that's how we got hooked. I mean, I didn't really know anything about I didn't even know the series existed.

Speaker 2 5:59

No, and that's something we're not gonna talk a lot about the books in the episodes where we're talking about the show. The books will have their own episodes because we really found this as a TV show. I think we like heard rumblings of it, like, oh, there's gonna be a gay hockey show coming out on HBO. We didn't even know it was a Crave show from Canada at the time. Um, and we were like, okay, like we we we like sports anime, we read fan fiction about, you know, sports characters. This sounds like something that'll be fun. We're always down to check out a queer story, but then you showed me the teaser, and it was just incredible. It's the hotel gym scene where they're like they do the bikes and it's like so intense and it's so quiet, but like you can just really feel the like desire radiating off of them.

Speaker 1 6:45

Yes, and especially once they're done with the bikes. You know, the whole bike thing, too, I feel like was part of the rivalry. Yes. Because, you know, leading up to this scene, we see only Shane kind of just in his hotel room restless. And this is after the right after the draft pick, right? Where he was the second pick. Right. So I think he's restless over that, but also, you know, he I think it's already been established at this point that there's some tension between him and Ilya. We see them meet eyes during that little draft pick thing, and even their first meeting. There is tension from the beginning, and I think you can see interest, especially from Ilya's side from the beginning, and this feels like the first real move he makes with the scene and the water bottle.

Speaker 2 7:25

Yes, when you can see the interest from Ilya, that I think is more um, like he's more aware of what that interest means. Like Shane, what he like the very first scene is Shane introducing himself to Ilya and saying, You're a great player to watch. Which, like, raise your hand if you're a queer person who before you realized you were queer, just thought you really admired people of the same sex. Like that that older girl that I'm friends with on the bus, I just think she's so cool. It's not because I want to look at her boobs.

Speaker 1 7:50

Yes, I think that's a hundred percent what was happening with Shane. And mind you, at this point, they're only 18, so they're they're young, but and we'll learn. And this is not a spoiler-free podcast, thank God. Um, but Ilya has had some experience where Shane very much has not, and the courting is real.

Speaker 2 8:07

Yes, very real. So we get to this hotel gym scene, and it really does start as Shane is going in there, and he's he's going pretty slow on the bike. It's just him, and he's clearly just like he's in his head, he needs to get out. He's very, he's a very physical person. I think this is another thing that goes into the sex cells of it all is that like Shane clearly, like to get out of his head has to get into his body. And so far, I think the only way he knows how to get into his body is through exercise. And then Ilya shows up, which it's like I I that must be like that's just a coincidence, right?

Speaker 1 8:35

I think that was a coincidence, but then Ilya sees him and goes right next to him, and their biking slowly it gets faster and faster because there is I love the way they put rivalry in like all these little things that they do, which is really cute.

Speaker 2 8:48

Well, and I think it's important that like Shane's doing this because he lost to Ilya. I think that's something throughout this episode that I think Shane feels like he's constantly losing to Ilya, which I think is frustrating for him, and that frustration is complicated by his desire.

Speaker 1 9:02

Yes.

Speaker 2 9:03

It's like you want to kiss him and you want to punch him. Yes, I think I think Shane shows that very much. Yes, yeah. I mean Hudson does such an amazing job. We should say this up top, and we'll say this over and over again. These two actors do an amazing job with these characters, and I would say like a big reason why this works so well is their performances.

Speaker 1 9:23

Yeah, I mean, I feel like for a really good show or a really good movie, uh, a lot of stars have to align, and I think you need a director who has a clear vision, who gives a shit, some decent writing, and actors who can bring it to life. And I just feel like they had all of that. I mean, I think another thing is, you know, this was supposed to just be a small Canadian show, and I don't think anyone anticipated.

Speaker 2 9:43

It's a bit like Chapel Roan, where it's like the expectation was this would stay for the gays, this would stay in the queer community, and like this broke out in a way that nobody was prepared for, and that leads to backlash again because we live in a homophobic society. Yep. I want to talk a little bit more about the hotel gym scene, particularly with um after they're done on the bikes and they're sitting across from each other, and this is a mirror shot, and we get so many mirror shots, and I think we should track that and talk about what mirrors mean um because I think I I personally love mirrors as a metaphor. Um and I just I think there's a a lot there, and so we like we have this mirror shot, which is very a complicated shot to do, and this is a low budget project, but they did it anyway, and I think they did it very successfully, and so you're kind of seeing both of them, and they're like looking at each other, and you have the water bottle scene, and this goes into like I think the Dom sub undertones a lot. Oh, yeah, there's a lot of that that comes up, which isn't very explicitly said in the show. No, it's very subtextual. Yeah. Ilya brought his water bottle, and I just have one note about that, which is he always makes sure the food and the drinks are nice.

Speaker 1 10:48

Um that service is coming through. Well, I want to talk about their body language a little bit too in this scene, because we have Ilya sitting loose, his legs are open, he's looking at Shane openly while Shane's legs are crossed in front of him.

Speaker 2 11:01

Yeah, I would say here we really get Ilya feeling Shane out. I think like the I think the you're such a good player to watch right at the beginning moment was like, you know, that was kind of a testing of the waters, and then they've been like watching each other. Um, and you know, I think this moment is when he's like, okay, I'm gonna try to see if there's something there. Because I think he very clearly is like, I'm attracted to this guy. And so like he hands him the water and Shane drinks a little. And I also thought it was interesting that Shane didn't bring water with him. He seems like the kind of person who would be very like, he would make sure he does everything right.

Speaker 1 11:31

Yeah, and maybe that's part of like, I don't think he was planning on going to the gym, you know, he just couldn't sleep, so he wasn't thinking of it. But there was Ilya with the water bottle.

Speaker 2 11:39

There's Ilya with water, and he hands it to him, and Shane takes a drink, and then Ilya says, more.

Speaker 1 11:44

He goes, he like barely whispers it, and the way the camera too on their mouths, like I this was what stood out to me immediately was I just like I felt like I could read this scene. Like I knew exactly what was going on in their heads in this scene, and I think that comes from a long history of my PhD of reading gay fanfiction.

Speaker 2 12:02

And it goes further because then like when Shane is done, he hands the bottle back to Iliad, and we get like the hand caress that Shane clocks and is like you kind of Hudson's so good at like the tiny eye movements that Shane does.

Speaker 1 12:14

Yeah, we'll talk about that more because Shane's performance is is a lot more subtle, so I think it gets overlooked, but it is very powerful in its own right.

Speaker 2 12:22

I don't think you can say either performance is better than the other because they're doing such different things and they're doing them both so masterfully. And one of those things that Connor is doing is Ilya's accent, which I think the first watch through, and we watched this week by week as it was coming out. And when we first watched this, I didn't quite pick up what they were doing with Ilya's accent. Like in this scene, they're both like out of breath because they were just on the bikes, and I thought that was why he was like struggling to speak some, but I realized like he is his character is Russian, English is not his first language. He's clearly still like he has the basics, but he's still learning. And so he says to Shane, like he starts a conversation about like, oh, Montreal is nice, right? And like that nice, he's trying to remember the English word. And I like that we get those subtleties. And I mean, neither of us are experts in accents, and I don't think we can like do too deep of a dive on this, but like it's just clear that Connor is doing an amazing job with this accent and not just like the accent itself, but like being a character who does not speak English as their first language. I think he's really embodying that in a very impressive way because he's from Texas. I know. Well, yeah, he looks Russian, and I think that really helps. Well, going back to the accent, he changed the way he held his jaw. Yes, which is like a true thing. Like the way that you hold your mouth is when you speak is determined by the language you grow up speaking, or language is if you speak multiple.

Speaker 1 13:44

Right. But yeah, no, I and even the way they pass the water bottle, like Shane makes a point to not touch fingers while Ilya like basically grabs his entire hand as they pass the water over. Yes.

Speaker 2 13:55

And then uh Ilya like takes a drink of water and he winks at Shane. Yes. And my headcanon is that from now on, every time Ilya winks at the camera during an interview, he's winking at Shane Hollander.

Speaker 1 14:08

Well, yeah, yeah, there and we've seen we see this type of pairing a lot in in I Yowie is not, I feel like, the correct term to use.

Speaker 2 14:17

I think there's a conversation to be had whether like Yowie and Yuri and like even Fujoshi, if those are like terms of cultural appropriation.

Speaker 1 14:26

I I don't think we can get into that right now. But it is, it's uh an archetype you see a lot. I think you you see this like kind of confident bordering cocky guy who's hurt inside, and then you have Shane really plays that like straight man, for lack of a better word, you know, that this kind of almost not they're not quite sunshine grumpy, but they're they're they're there a little bit.

Speaker 2 14:47

Well, Shane's got like this social awkwardness, um, whereas Ilya's got this like kind of like almost like asshole playfulness with him. Like I think like Shane calls him an asshole all the time, and I think this scene is really showing that, where like Ilya's like, oh, was it a good day for you? And he's like, almost, and he's like, Oh, sorry, but he doesn't really mean it. And Shane catches that, and they're having this like little banter, and it's so fun. And again, the chemistry is just so good, like the sexual tension is building.

Speaker 1 15:17

This is another thing I want to touch on, is another thing why I think heated rivalry hits so good, is it's hard to find a decent piece of gay media, past and present, where especially like in the past, any good gay movies usually ended up in tragedy and death. And then it feels like modern more now. We see like they're trying to incorporate gay media into like we we are getting gay Hallmark movies now and other things, and like it's either really wholesome or like the quality is just not great. I feel I'm very snobby and picky when it comes to my media, and I just feel like a lot of movies, like the writing really lacks and the acting sucks, and like I did not like red, white, and royal blue if you can't tell. Um, but this just felt like it had like the love and talent that it deserved.

Speaker 2 16:05

And I will say, yeah, and I think a lot of that come down comes down to the industry. M and I, in our, you know, in our conversations, we talk a lot about like art as industry and how detrimental that is to the art being made because it is about what people will think will sell. And while sex does sell, I think we're just now getting to the point where gay sex is something you can put on screen. That was something I I agree that the red, white, and royal blue movie did not get the love it deserved. It was on Amazon, which like has a budget. Like you could have put more money into that. You didn't need to use the green screens that you used. But because it's a gay, like they're still not willing to take those risks on gay media. And I think, you know, there's a certain level of creativity with having a small budget, which I think we'll talk about in a future episode. Yes. That like the the team on Hainted Rivalry, Jacob Tierney, you know, all the people involved, I think they were able to craft a really well-told store story on like not a lot of money, but that is just the way it goes with queer stories. They're not willing to take that financial risk on a queer story because I mean, look at Disney. Disney refuses.

Speaker 1 17:08

Never mind that it gets proven time and time again that there is an audience and that, but but homophobia, I guess, is stronger than the dollar at this point. I don't know. But anyway, is there anything else on this scene we want to talk about? I don't think so. I think we're ready to move on. Do we want to keep going through the sex scenes?

Speaker 2 17:24

Sure, let's okay, let's gaze, let's keep it sexy.

Speaker 1 17:28

Yeah, we're gonna let's go through the sex scenes and then we'll talk more about the rivalry.

Speaker 2 17:32

Yeah, absolutely. Because I want to talk about the um the locker room scene after the they shoot their commercial.

Speaker 1 17:38

After the commercial, which I just really quickly want to say in the commercial scene, you know, we have Ilya calling Shane pretty. And Shane obviously takes this as a dig or that he's making fun because he's like, You're wearing makeup too, but Ilya completely means it. And he also has no problem telling Shane he asked for them to be in a commercial. This is what I mean by I think he is actively courting Shane.

Speaker 2 17:58

He is, he's pursuing him. He like Shane, and this goes into the communication, which will also miscommunication, which we'll get into later. And Ilya, like, he bring he brings up the opportunity to tell Shane that he has him. He's like, Oh, when did they tell you you were gonna do this commercial together and not just alone? And Shane's like, I don't know, two days ago, what about you? And Ilya's like, they told me nothing. This was my idea. He's like, I want you to know that I want you here. Daddy put this together for you, baby. Yeah, honestly. And so then we get um, and we get the scene with Yuna, which we will talk about later. Um, but then we get the locker room scene where Shane's showering, and Ilya walks in, and I will never forget when they go to the wide shot, the first time we watched it, you said, Oh, they're cute little butts.

Speaker 1 18:42

They have great, and I feel like the actors kind of roll their eyes at this, but I'm sorry you had like, especially uh, we've got balloon butt Connor over here. Sorry, I like a good butt. Yeah.

Speaker 2 18:53

No, I mean it, I think I I think it's fair for them to be like, okay, you can actually stop talking about our asses. We were doing other things in there, but that is like that was the first time where it's like, oh, holy shit. Oh, I see what we're doing here.

Speaker 3 19:05

Right.

Speaker 2 19:06

Um, yeah, and then and this is another like very quiet scene. There's very little dialogue, a lot is happening with their eyes.

Speaker 1 19:12

It is a lot like that that water bottle scene, but you can still tell what's going on in their heads. Like, I feel like Shane, maybe even in the back of his head, thinks, like, is he hitting on me? Is this flirting? Like, what is this? And then by the shower scene, when he's staring at you, stroking his cock. Yes. Well, baby, there's no question.

Speaker 2 19:28

Yeah, seriously. And I love well, and I love the like discomfort you see with Shane, where he like clearly, I think he's realizing, like, oh, I think this guy is really hot. I think he like gets like you don't see below their like chest line, but you can see with the way that they're looking that, like, oh, Shane's probably getting a little hard because he was staring at Ilya.

Speaker 1 19:46

Well, Ilya glances down at him meaningfully, and and I think Shane's like, shut up. So obviously he's getting hard.

Speaker 2 19:51

Yeah, and he's like embarrassed about that. And Ilya's like, okay, I gotta show him that I don't have a problem with that, and just fully starts like jerking off, and then like indicates to Shane, like, okay, now you do it too. If like go ahead. And they really have a whole conversation with their eyes. And then Shane says, not here. Which that is, oh my god, because it's not like, no, it's not that's disgusting. It's like it's I want to do this, but we can't do this here in the locker room because it's too exposed. Then the lights are very bright. Anyone could walk in. And I think this shows like Shane is like so like he's more afraid of being caught than Ilya is. Yes.

Speaker 1 20:28

And I also love like right after that scene where Shane is just like sitting on the bench, and then as soon as Ilya enters frame, he pretends he was putting his shoes on.

Speaker 2 20:36

Yeah, he was clearly just like thinking about that. I mean, I'd imagine he's probably thinking about like what would have happened if I hadn't said no.

Speaker 1 20:42

Oh my god.

Speaker 2 20:43

And this scene I think is framed so interestingly because like Shane is like bent down, tying his shoe the whole time, and like his head is like level with Ilya's dick the whole time. Like Jacob Tierney, we see what you're doing.

Speaker 1 20:57

And Ilya sauntering into frame.

Speaker 2 20:59

Oh my god. And just and Shane trying to pretend like, oh, we can just pretend like that never happened, and blah blah blah, and like Ilya is just like clocking immediately. Like, this is like you want this, and I know that you do. But I think he's also not being like, he's not pressuring Shane in any way.

Speaker 1 21:15

No, I don't think so.

Speaker 2 21:16

But and then he asks, he's like, What's your room number? And if Shane really didn't want to do this, he wouldn't have given up his room room number. He's like pretending, he's like questioning, he's like, uh, 1410, like, why do you want to know? And it's like, you know why, you know why. Don't play coy with me, you little Omega. Yeah, for real. That's a conversation to be had. We'll talk about that in episode four. And the name of this episode of our podcast for episode one is I might open, I might knock. Because I, first of all, I think that's wonderful. I think that is also like that's like bottom and top. Like I might open bottom, I might knock top.

Speaker 1 21:50

Yeah, these two are not switches.

Speaker 2 21:52

No. And we'll talk about that uh when we get to the rivals part. Yeah, okay. And so then this transitions us into that first part. That first hookup with poor little Shane, so nervous.

Speaker 1 22:03

We get so much of his personality though, and I really like as an awkward socially awkward person, I just have such an endearment towards Shane, and I really understand him. And the way he's just like awkwardly sitting, kind of changing the way he's sitting. He almost put a suit on. I wish he kept the suit on. Uh me too.

Speaker 2 22:20

And I also I saw somewhere, and I wish I had the interview so that I could directly quote it, but I think Hudson said something along the lines of like he didn't put the suit on because this is like an important occasion. He put the suit on because he thinks he and Ilya need to talk. And so he wanted to be like, he wanted to have the suit on to be like, we're gonna sit down and we're gonna have an important discussion.

Speaker 1 22:38

That's actually really interesting to know because Shane is the one I think that pushes for them to talk eventually. Yes. But he's wanted to do that since pretty much the beginning.

Speaker 2 22:47

And we actually see that later when Ilya comes when he knocks and Shane opens, um, and he comes in, like Ilya walks in the room and Shane's clearly nervous and he says, like, should we talk?

Speaker 3 22:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 22:58

And Ilya says no and like pushes him up against the wall and like kisses him. And Shane is like, I think Shane wants it so bad. And this is, you know, he says this is his first time with a man. And he's clearly like wanted this for a while now with Ilya. And I think it's just the like, and I think it goes back to like he needs to get out of his head by getting into his body, and Ilya allows him to get into his body in a brand new way. Very much so.

Speaker 1 23:21

Yeah, they're really on different playing grounds at this stage because Ilya's done this before, and I think he's approaching this as another, like, oh, this is like a dangerous hookup, you know, I shouldn't be doing this, but he's really hot, and I think it is very much that. Where Shane probably, I think he's just not that kind of guy. I don't think he would be a casual hookup guy ever. And so he probably just likes Ilya from the get.

Speaker 2 23:41

Yeah, but he doesn't know what to do with that, first of all, because Ilya is like, we're not talking about this. This is physical only, and I think Shane's like, well, if I can get that, that's what I've, you know, I've wanted that.

Speaker 1 23:51

And let's talk about this kiss and this scene because oh my god. Like I remember watching this for the first time, and again, just that feeling of like, I feel like I'm watching good fake come to life, like with the thumb in his mouth, and it's also just like, it's just hot. Like, I don't know, some sex scenes and kissing scenes and love scenes, and I think in shows and in media can get repetitive, or you've seen the same shit before. It doesn't feel quite real, but there's something very like real feeling to this hookup.

Speaker 2 24:19

When I think we need to uh shout out the intimacy coordinator for this show, Challa Hunter, um, because she did an incredible job, I think. Um, I'm sure that they from interviews that we've heard, um, they talk a lot. They talked a lot before going into these scenes about what they wanted to do and how they wanted it to go. And so I think between like the intimacy coordination, the directing, the photography, the cinematography of it, like I think it just all comes together to create something that feels very, very real and very like heavy with the sexual tension. And and it's just so good. Like, I think the lighting is good, I think the lighting is important, like they're very much in shadow now. Um, you know, they're the curtains are closed, they're hidden away, and they can finally express this. Yeah. And you can see how much Shane wants it. I think Hudson does a really good job. Well, he wastes no time getting to his knees. Oh my god, as soon as Ilya's thumb is in his mouth, he's like, that's not what I want in my mouth, and goes down.

Speaker 1 25:18

And that's another thing I think, again, about the realness of this scene, too, moving forward in the scene. So then they walk to the bed, and it I like that the they take their time with that scene. Like they could kind of cut that a little bit, but they walk over to the bed. Even like Shane waiting beforehand, like you feel that anxiety of before the sneaky link arrives, like it just feels so like relatable and real. And then they're laying next to each other, and Ilya's like, What do you want to do? And Shane's like, I don't know. And it's these tiny little like realistic things that I just like really puts me into it, and it makes me so mad again when people really dismiss like it's porny or whatever. Sex is a part of life, and I feel like I'm getting on a bit of a pedestal right now because it seems like there's either you gotta be puritanical and sex is like dirty and gross, or like if you think or want it, then you're just being like horny and animalistic, but it's a part of life, it's a very natural thing that we do, and it's okay to be interested in it, it's okay to want to watch people do it, like it's okay, and it can also be part of a larger story, and it doesn't bring down the integrity of a story if there's sex in it, you pilgrims.

Speaker 2 26:24

I yeah, that's something I've seen before where it's like, oh well, I wanted the story to really be about the romance, so I didn't want to include the sex in it, and it's like, okay, but the sex can be like an integral part of the love. Like these sex scenes with Shane and Ilya are part of their love story.

Speaker 1 26:41

There's also a huge difference between like, I think people conflate like the porn industry to sexy romantic books or sexy romantic media that has plot to it. I know we did hashtag porn without plot, but that was ironic. It was almost like an overcorrection. So now every sex scene or anything that has sex to do with it is automatically lesser than it just does not sit right with me.

Speaker 2 27:01

Well, and I think that conversation misses like the we haven't even said the word patriarchy yet, but like that is such a like 31 minutes in. I can't believe we have it. That like, no, but like the reason that the porn industry is the way it is is because we live in a hetero-patriarchal society that is built on misogyny and like the submission of women and the dominance of men.

Speaker 1 27:21

Yes, and I think that's another thing about that whole conversation about like lesbians and and women in general shouldn't l enjoy gay porn because it's fetishizing. How about we think for a second that A, there's not a lot of lesbian storylines out there, but B, maybe it's nice to see a relationship where there is no woman and you can kind of take away all that societal like unevenness. Yes. And I think that it was a subconscious part of it for me too, because like that's another thing is like I've always loved this kind of content and I've always liked the gay pairings because I'm gay. And then yeah, I think with the straight pairings, there's this dynamic that's already like assumed and bled in, and that all goes away when you make the people like the same gender or whatever. Yes.

Speaker 2 28:01

So and when you put them on this like equal footing, like making them rivals means that like in a way they see each other as equals, in a way that like even if you have like a like a rivals to lovers that is like a hetero couple, there's still that like societal implication of like this is the man, this is the woman. And I think even with Shane and Ilya, with like Shane being the bottom and Ilya being the top, it's not like Shane is the woman of the relationship, like, and that's like a ridiculous heteronormative way to talk about gay relationships anyway. Um, and honestly, a heteronormative way to talk about straight relationships. That's not even like it's it's like a lie that like it's a story we've all been fed and that we're supposed to believe, but it's just a story, it's not real, and people try to fit into that.

Speaker 1 28:44

And I think homosexuality and queerness really flips all that on its head, and so people are just like they don't really understand and they can't wrap their mind around it, so they they they get the wrong takeaway, I think, sometimes.

Speaker 2 28:55

Yeah, it's like queerness has the potential to dismantle these ideas that we have that are ultimately very harmful to a lot of people. Um, okay. I want to talk with this first sex scene, not just about like the sex cells of it all, but I also want to talk about what we learn about Shane and Ilya through this and how they feel about each other. Like I think Ilya's down bad for Shane very early on.

Speaker 1 29:18

Yeah, I feel like all of their hookup scenes, well, except that we get a little angsty in episode two, but like these ones are there's a lovingness to all of it. Like it doesn't feel like a simple empty hookup.

Speaker 2 29:30

Yeah, well, Shane folding his clothes, which I mean that tells us a lot about him as a person. Yes. And we see the look on Ilya's face. And Connor does such a good job of just being absolutely delighted by this. Yeah. Like, oh, that because he, you know, I think he's already seen Shane as this, like, he's this weird, awkward guy, but he like loves it. He thinks it's so cute. Like, I do think if Shane had continued wearing the suit, like, I think Ilya would have loved that. He would have mocked him mercilessly, but it would have been like from a place of love.

Speaker 1 29:58

Yes, I think he's very, it's very fond.

Speaker 2 30:01

Yeah. And then I also want to talk about, and I think this kind of goes into like Ilya being the top as well, is he is very caring and like not just in sex and not just with Shane. I think we see that in, you know, in his family, with his family, with Svetlana, I think even with his team. But I think the the care really shows here, you know, with you know, Ilya is on the bed and Shane's just like standing there and doesn't know what to do, and then he gets on the bed and he's like, I I don't know what to do, what to do. And so Ilya's like, okay, I'll take care of it. He goes into caretaker mode and he's like, Okay, I'll I'll get you in the place you need to be. Let's let's kiss.

Speaker 1 30:35

And it's so funny because yeah, he he'll he'll start it, but it feels like that's all Shane needed because like 10 seconds later he's like, Yeah, I want to get back to sucking your dick, actually. I just didn't know how to say it. Yeah. And then we get the most beautiful ass shot that's ever existed. Oh my god, yeah. Shane's like positioning the lighting on his round ass. Like it's just so beautiful for no reason. It's like an award-winning shot.

Speaker 2 30:56

Like, it's incredible. And that's like that, you know, it's like, I I wish that porn was taken as seriously as these sex scenes are. I think like porn would be better if people put more artistry and love into it.

Speaker 1 31:09

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it was like, I was like, if I could make like porn, but it's well acted and has a storyline, I mean, I'm kind of contradicting myself, but that's almost what at least with this first episode of Heated Rivalry, kind of.

Speaker 2 31:23

It's well, it's what it feels like in these sex scene moments, but we only get two of these and we get so much more around them. Yes. Like, if you were to just take these, the two sex scenes we get here and maybe like the the setup scenes, if you took all the scenes we're talking about, the the hotel gym scene, the shower scene, this scene, and then the sex scene later on, and you put that together, that would be a great like 30-minute.

Speaker 1 31:43

Well, but then again, and then and people act like that's all the show is when really it doesn't have any more sex scenes than like any other HBO show would have, but because it's gay, I think it it gets conflated to be more pornographic.

Speaker 2 31:56

Well, and I think Bridgerton did get these um these kinds of criticisms about it being too pornographic. And and I haven't actually watched the show myself, but I'm pretty sure like the very first scene of Bridgerton is like somebody fucking somebody up against a tree, and it's like that's how they introduced the show, which it's like that's all well and good, and like I really don't have any further commentary on that show. But this show doesn't start out with the sex, it starts out with the two characters meeting, and they're like fully clothed and wearing hats.

Speaker 1 32:24

Yes, we get about all about their rivalry and everything. Because the even in this first sex scene when Ilya first gets there, I think he says, like, I thought you might chicken out. And Shane's like, I'm not a chicken. Like, even this, this the way it pops up kind of humorfully in these scenes is great.

Speaker 2 32:38

Yes. Well, and I really think of Shane and Ilya, I think they're written to be opposites, their opposites attract in so many ways. And and I think the filmmaking does a really good job of showing that their like colors are constantly different. Like if one is wearing a dark color, the other's wearing a bright color, and vice versa. Like, I think Shane is very like blue coated and um Illy's very like red-orange coated, and those are you know another classic pairing of colors for gay pairs. Absolutely. And again, and I think because for me, like I often when I'm like shipping characters and reading fanfiction, like I prefer when characters are switches, and because I'm a switch and I like to project. Um also I just think that like that to me just makes more sense. I think the idea that like again, it's like the boxes thing, like this person's absolutely a bottom and this person's absolutely a top. Like, unless that's told to me by the narrative, I'm like, you can kind of play with it however you want. Right. Um, but the narrative tells us that Shane is a bottom and Ilya is a top. And I think that again just goes into them being opposites and them being rivals, but it also goes into again, Shane needs to get into his body through physicality, and he he often isn't able to let go. Um, and I think he has to be like he has to be very controlled. And we see that when he's talking to his mom, he has to control his image, he has to control the way he acts, like he has to be this like pillar for his community. Whereas Ilya is like the rebel and like he has been controlled by his family his entire life. He doesn't feel like the control comes from inside of him. So as a top and as a Dom, he is able to can uh exert control over somebody who wants that control. And Shane wants that because he wants to be able to let go and just like let somebody else take care of things, and he doesn't have to be the one making the decisions. And Ilya gets to make those decisions and take care of him, and I think it's like really beautiful actually.

Speaker 1 34:26

Yes, and we'll have even more to say as the episodes go on.

Speaker 2 34:30

Yes, and I I also just want to talk for a second while we're talking about top and bottom stuff. Ilya is a whiny top. He loves he's a little whiny, and we'll talk about it in like the second sex scene in particular. He says something, but I really love that.

Speaker 1 34:44

Yeah, and do you want to just talk about like rivals to lovers as a trope? Yeah, so rivals to lovers is obviously a very popular trope. It's a fun one. Um, it can get mixed up with enemies to lovers, but I think what's different with enemies to lovers and rivals to lovers, with rivals, there's like a mutual respect there. You're not really fighting against each other, you're more competing. Um, but what's really great, what I think is so different about heated rivalry, is we've seen this trope before. We see it a lot in like shonen anime and Naruto, you know, Naruto and Sasuke. We see it in My Hero Academia, and it always gets they have it's always these two boys or these two men having very a very, very intense relationship with each other. But then the narrative is always they're like brothers, they're the bestest of friends, la la la. But meanwhile, they're soulmate coded, and it just feels like this show is the first time where they kind of flip it where the rivalry is like more of the backdrop and in the background, and the romance actually gets to take the front seat. Yes.

Speaker 2 35:36

Well, and I would say on rivals to lovers, I would say rivalry, the base of rivalry is love, not hate.

Speaker 3 35:43

Yeah.

Speaker 2 35:44

Like you it comes from a place of respect, you know, and I think that's what that very first scene shows us. You're an amazing player to watch. Like I see you as a rival because like I think you're on the same level as I am. Again, they're equals, not enemies. Yeah. Um, even though they're constantly pitted against each other by their teams, by the media. I think the rivalry, I think they have their own little like competitiveness with each other. Um, but the rivalry really comes from the fans. Like we see it in like that game that they play against each other. The one, um I think it's in like the middle of the episode when it's like Shane Hollander, will you disappoint them?

Speaker 1 36:15

Like Oh, and I love, I just want to say I love the sound design there. They do it a couple of times where we go from like the commentators watching the ice to going on the ice, and the sound goes, ooh, and it gets really quiet and you're in that space between their two faces.

Speaker 2 36:28

Yes, but right before that, before they both get on the ice, it's the fans cheering because they know Shane is on the court, they know Hollander is on the court, and the the fans are screaming, Rosa enough, Rosa enough, and like the coaches like decide to put Rosanoff in, and like that's something we hear with the All-Star game. They're like, oh, it's Team Hollander versus Team Rosanoff. I mean Team America or Team North America versus Team Europe.

Speaker 1 36:48

The like hockey fandom is unironically kind of shipping them together. And also, we've talked about, we're sure that they're in this world, there's definitely a corner where they were already shipping Ilya and Shane.

Speaker 2 36:58

One of my favorite kinds of heated rivalry TikToks are POV, you're a teenage girl in the heated rivalry world. Like, I think that's so funny.

Speaker 1 37:06

And like the hockey part, also, just this is kind of a random tangent, but it feels so full full circle to me specifically. And anyone who I think has been in the fanfic world and read a lot of queer fanfiction is like, how many of you have been reading an author and you look at their other works and they're randomly in the hockey universe for some reason? That happened to me. My first ever favorite fanfic writer also wrote a bunch for hockey, and I was like, well, hockey, and that's like a huge fanfic fandom.

Speaker 2 37:30

Yeah, and I think we should say we're not hockey people, we're not even sports people. No, I know nothing. You're not gonna hear a lot of of the hockey talk from us. That's why this is called sex cells. Yeah. Um, that you you can see where our focus is. But I do think that's true, and I think I think part of it has to do with the fact that hockey is one of those like macho men's sports and they're like throwing each other up against the glass. And I feel like sports are kind of a way for men to touch each other. Oh, yeah. Um, even like in a platonic way, because men in in specifically in like North American culture and Western culture, this isn't true in other cultures of the world, but like men are not supposed to touch each other. Like touching another man is gay. Like, if you hug a man and you don't slap his back, if there's not some kind of violence involved, you're gay.

Speaker 1 38:11

But as soon as you're on the football field, well, baby, slap his ass.

Speaker 2 38:14

Yeah, and like so many sports are all about you gotta slap their ass before they go in, you're tackling each other to the ground, you're like ripping your gloves off and like fighting each other. It's very, it's just like I think like men are taught to express themselves through anger and violence.

Speaker 1 38:29

Well, and and I feel like I I've heard that hockey in particular is especially homophobic. And I mean, we all saw how the US men's hockey team embarrassed us this year at the Olympics. Yeah. By being a bunch of fucking cucks. Women are better. Fuck you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 38:44

Um, yeah, I I only watch women's sports, and that's why. That's one of the reasons. Men's sports? Yeah, me, yeah, men's sports, whatever. Meanwhile, the women's US team also won at the Olympics. Um, and they behaved in a way that uh I could be proud of.

Speaker 1 39:00

But yeah, no, so the world is kind of pushing Ilya and Shane together. They they put them together for that press conference.

Speaker 2 39:06

Yes. Well, and I want to say, real quick, sorry, I forgot to mention this, but I think um a lot of people have said this, and I think the author has even admitted that like Shane and Ilya are kind of based off of two real hockey players, um, Sidney Crosby and Alex Ovechkin, who are like they they had that like rivalry. And I I don't necessarily think the author's trying to say that they're gay lovers. I think it's just the kind of thing where it's like, but if they were gay lovers, how juicy would that be? Um, which is like the crux of fanfiction.

Speaker 1 39:34

Well, there's so much like passion in sports. Yes. And I mean, literally, there's scenes, I think, in the second episode where they kind of compare the passion of sports to the passion of love making. Yes, absolutely. Boys, if you gotta rub one out together in the locker room, it's okay.

Speaker 2 39:50

Yeah, it's it's fine. Well, and I think you also see with like going back to sports, like there's like hazing stuff which can be like very dangerous, but often kind of has like a gay element to it. Like, I think of like frat boys paddling each other on the ass, which I think like it's like, is that gay or is that like a dominance play thing? And like I think for you know, I'm not a man, obviously, like I I don't know what this is, but I think it'd be interesting to like hear about like the like how how much power dynamics are involved with sex. Um, and like it's it, I don't know. I just like it's so hard for me to understand that from like a personal level because that's never how it's been for me. Um, and so I think that's an interesting part of like the rivals to lovers and the sports fandom and like shipping sports players together.

Speaker 1 40:36

And sports itself is a fandom, it's just a socially accepted one.

Speaker 2 40:40

Well, yeah, it's well, it's and it's something that is traditionally like masculine, so it's okay. And I think you know, when we talk about the mainstream response to this show, I think we can talk about the way people talked about the fans of this show versus the way people talk about actual sports fans, and how I would say often sports fans are doing things that are like way more out of line than anyone in fandom has done. Right. But yeah, um, do we have more to say about the rivals?

Speaker 1 41:05

Well, I just mentioned how, you know, the rivalry brings them together in the press conference where we don't have to get too deep into that scene, but you know, again with Ilya struggling with English, he get they get like a really long question and Shane saves him and they can they do these little foot touches, but really like the homophobia of hockey pushed these boys together.

Speaker 2 41:23

Yeah, well, and I just want to highlight uh Connor's performance in that scene because you can see as the questions are being asked, you can see Ilya like trying to keep up and then kind of like giving up at one point and like I have no idea what the fuck this guy is saying. I don't know how to answer this question. A long ass fucking question anyway. Yeah, it's and it's a little bit like, hey, maybe you just remind yourself that not all of these all the people you're talking to like have the same grasp of English that you do. And like as somebody, I I'm currently going to school for my bachelor's and I just had to do like three semesters of Spanish, and I really appreciate learning this other language, and I think it's important, but it is like, you know, sometimes listening to things like I gotta turn that down to 0.75 speed if I'm gonna understand what this audio is telling me because like my brain has to like rewire itself. You have to be translating in real time to yourself. Yes, which is very difficult to do. Yeah, and then Shane comes in and saves Ilya, and Ilya shows his appreciation for that with the little foot tap and like their like feet are like pressed against each other, and it's like, wow, that's so romantic.

Speaker 1 42:21

You're in love, I'm so sorry to say. And then I'll just point out this one that will take us back to our last sex scene with the rivalry. Shane breaks Ilya's goalie record. It's like the shot um record.

Speaker 2 42:33

Like the All-Star game, I guess, has like little like mini games. Yeah, whatever. We don't know anything about it.

Speaker 1 42:38

Yeah, and so like it's like it's like the like shot accuracy. Right. But I wanted to talk about it because we get the one, two, two, one. Yes. So Ilya gives Shane his hotel number, and we get the hilarious ban of the reveal of Scott Hunter, like side-eyeing all of this.

Speaker 2 42:55

Like, clearly clocking that. He heard the one, two, two, one, and you know, and I think the first time we watched this, I think there's a question of like, oh, is this guy like homophobic? Is he gonna be a problem? And I think you and I both were like, I think this guy's gay. Yes.

Speaker 1 43:07

And knows about it because we we didn't read the books, we didn't know about game changers. Yes, but he makes a point to tell Shane like he's next to Ilya, and that felt like him giving him a bit of a heads up. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 43:18

And just like kind of a reminder of like, hey, you're staying in a hotel full of other hockey players, so if you're gonna be doing gay shit, yeah. And you see the way that that affects Shane, because then when he goes to meet him at Ilya's apartment, Ilya opens the door and we get our first peek at angry kitten Shane.

Speaker 1 43:34

I was gonna say, he is such an angry little kitten. Yeah, he like come he like enters the room really quickly and like shuts the door behind him, and he's like, Scott Hunter's right next door. I love the way he says that. Hudson is so incredible, it's so funny. When he's scolding Ilya, yeah, it it really hits.

Speaker 2 43:51

It's really, really good. But then as soon, like his anger fades away immediately, as soon as he like gets a look at Ilian, and then he's pushing him up against the pillow. To himself, very fanfic. Very fanfic.

Speaker 1 44:03

Very hot. And then I think we get a little bit more of like the um well, Ilya tells Shane to get on his knees, which he does immediately. Which again, I think Shane likes being told what to do.

Speaker 2 44:12

Yes, and I think Ilya has clocked that. Also, I just want to point out that like we're in Ilya's hotel room now, and like the lights are still dim, but like his curtains are open, which I think is just showing that like Ilya is like a little bit more okay with the risk of it all, whereas Shane is very much like close the curtains. Well, he doesn't say that, but like that's his his desire.

Speaker 1 44:32

And then I just love like a couple of queer little things where like we have Shane grabbing Ilya's titties and then Ilya carrying Shane to the bed. I love when a man carries another man.

Speaker 2 44:42

Pick him up and carry him to that bed. I think you missed that the first time, and I like pointed it out to you, and I and we had to rewind because I was like, Did you clock that Ilya was carrying Shane? And you were like, No. And I was like, okay, we have to see it because it is amazing. And like Connor's story really did that.

Speaker 1 44:56

Yeah. Um and so this time Ilya wants to go all the way.

Speaker 2 44:59

Yes. Yeah, but Ilya's a consent king, which we we didn't cover that enough in the first sex scene, I think. But he is he checks in a lot. He checks in a lot in a way that's like sexy. It's not like, are you okay? Like, do you want to keep doing this? It's like he's kind of like, you know, with in the first sex scene, he's like, Have you been with a man before? And then he's like, Oh, well, did you like sucking my cock? Like, would you like to keep doing it? You know, like really opening that door. And then even when they are sitting on the bed together, like, what do you want to do? Um, and he only like takes control and does things when he realizes that's that Shane doesn't know where to go.

Speaker 3 45:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2 45:32

But yeah, this time they're like, I think this time we get a great um ass shot of Connor. We do um sucking uh sucking Shane stick.

Speaker 1 45:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 45:40

Um, but then yeah, like they're they're making out, and then he like tells him to roll over.

Speaker 1 45:44

And I think Shane is a little like Well, this is what I love about this part. So Ilya, and again, I think where Shane kind of misunderstands him because Ilya says, You are scared. And Shane's like, no, I'm not. And I think he thinks Ilya's like making fun of him or being mean, but I think he is just observing, like, oh, you're a little nervous about this, and it's very much like he's like, no, it's okay. And I think he means it. No, it's okay. Like, we don't have to. And then Shane reveals something fun. I know, he's right.

Speaker 2 46:07

He's like, I'm trying to tell you I have a thing. And Ilya's like, what? And then he says a dildo. And this is another great performance from Connor's story. Cause you see his like, you see like the 404 arrow error page in Ilya's head as he's like imagining Shane using a dildo on himself. I'm like, he's jacking off to that image later.

Speaker 1 46:25

Yeah, and the way he's like, what color? It's just so funny.

Speaker 2 46:30

I don't know. I love them. It's really good. And I I kind of want to talk a little bit about um Ilya being plain playful and how, and again, I think this goes him to being a caretaker, is like he likes to be playful. And in that first scene, we have that moment after Ilya comes. Um, and then like Ilya like rolls over and he's like, Okay, time to go. And you see, like he's like, you kind of see like a little mischievous grin on his face. He's like, I love fucking with this guy, I'm gonna fuck with him more. But then he turns over and realizes that Shane took that seriously and is like freaking out and thinks like Ilya's an asshole. And Ilya immediately switches to like no no no no. Like he reassures him, he's like, no, no, no. Like, and then he kind of brings the playfulness back in where he's like, let me show you how to do this, right? kind of thing. But yeah, I think like he he recognizes when Shane is upset and like can bring himself out of the playfulness and can like not be such like a dick about things and like really like show that care for Shane and be like, no, it's okay.

Speaker 1 47:25

Yeah, he's definitely tuned in because they're talking about this and he can see Shane's panic, and he says, Hold on, you're having a panic attack. It's just a plan to fuck, you know, because he's like, where would we do it? Uh he's like, you you're homeless, you don't have a house. Like, it's an apartment. Also, I think we moved way too fast, not in this podcast, but in general, that Shane's been using dildos on himself. So the man knew something was going on.

Speaker 2 47:48

I and I wonder when that happened. Do you think that was like after the first time he hooked up with Ilya? Do you think that was after he like first like started to have feelings? Has he has he done that for a while? Like, I would like to know when when did Shane start playing with his ass? And because specifically, I love Ilya's line, like him being a dick, he's like, oh, does touching your ass make you gay? Because you know what else makes you gay is sucking my dick. Yes. And then Shane's just like, no, man, I'm I know I I do like to play with my ass. I don't know I'm gay yet, but I know I like to have a dick in my ass. And we get, and this is something I think the show does really well, is like having like mirrored moments where we get another not here. Because we get, first of all, we get whiny top Ilya being like, Come on, Hollander, I want to fuck you. Yes, yes. Um, which is very funny. But like Scott Hunter is right next door. Um and and Ilya makes a joke of like, oh, he'd probably like it. Um he'd probably like it, and like he's hot, and like I think Ilya thinks Scott Hunter is very hot and actually would like to fuck him, and that's where all of the like he's a thousand years old comes from.

Speaker 1 48:54

I agree.

Speaker 2 48:55

Um, but no, Shane doesn't want to do it with Scott Hunter next door, like because he won't be able to fully get into his body the way he needs to. He will be in his head about it, worried that they're going to get caught. And so he says, again, not here.

Speaker 1 49:06

Yes. Not not with Scott Hunter next door.

Speaker 2 49:09

Yes. I want you in a field of roses. Yeah, and so that's when Ilya comes up with the plan for for how they're for, you know, okay, well then in two weeks. And Shane's like, what do you mean? It's like, well, Boston plays Montreal. We can fuck. We can go to your apartment. And then, and then I think we we don't like fully see them having sex. Um, because again, the importance of that scene is not that they're fucking. The importance of that scene is again seeing that Ilya wants to go all the way with Shane, seeing that Shane's nervous about it, his feelings about it, learning about the dildo, and then them making a plan so we know, okay, they are going to continue this. And like setting up what will eventually happen with them is they play, then they fuck. Um, but we see afterwards, I think Ilya's already showered, and Shane's just like still very nervous about it and doesn't know how this is gonna work. And I think like for Shane, Shane wants a plan.

Speaker 1 49:58

Yes, and Ilya just seems to know that because that's when he's like, give me your phone, and then they establish, like, okay, now they have each other's numbers and they can text.

Speaker 2 50:05

Yes, and they're they're Jane and Lily, which is very cute. But also, we'll get into the texting in episodes two and four. But it's like, honey, if anyone read those messages, they're gonna know this isn't two women.

unknown 50:17

Yeah, well.

Speaker 2 50:18

But but you know, they have the plausible deniability of like, you know, I'm I'm texting a woman named Lily. Well, and people are just not that observant in general. That's very true. And we'll talk about one particular non-observant character. And then I think we do need to talk about the MLH awards to talk about their miscommunication.

Speaker 1 50:34

Yes, well, and so their plan for two weeks later gets fucked because of the snow.

Speaker 2 50:39

Yeah, so the game gets canceled, and then we meet Svetlana. She's introduced in episode one, which I think for all of us we're like, oh, is this Ilya's girlfriend? Like, who is this? Is she gonna get in the way? And I mean, I love what they do with Svetlana's character. I love that there really isn't like a woman coming between them ever. No.

Speaker 1 50:58

All the all the women characters, I really enjoy how they're handled. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 51:02

And we'll we'll talk about one in particular towards the end of this. Yeah, so they they they aren't able to fuck. And I love, because we see like the airport scene where the like Boston is waiting because they're going to fly to Montreal, and Marlowe, who is Ilya's teammate, and like his little buddy, like seat clocks that Ilya is like, his leg is bouncing, he keeps looking at his phone. He like knows something's going on, and then like Ilya's clearly disappointed they're not going to Montreal, and he's like, it's a night off. Like, relax. And he's like, Listen, whoever she is, she'll get over it.

Speaker 1 51:30

Right, like they're not fucking subtle, man.

Speaker 2 51:32

No, and Ilya, like, he wants that cookie so damn bad. He is like, you can tell, he is truly disappointed.

Speaker 1 51:39

He wasn't even, he didn't, he wasn't that excited to see Svetlana, and she could tell. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 51:45

And and you know, I think we we don't need to get into Svetlana and Ilya's dynamic in this episode. I think we can wait and talk about them later.

Speaker 3 51:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 51:52

Um, but I do, I do love them, and they like really, it's just like, oh, who's this person? Ilya's fucking and like wearing his his hoggy jersey and all this. And I do wanna just say her name. The actress who plays Svetlana is Cassinia Daniels, uh or Cassinia Daniela, and I think she's amazing.

Speaker 1 52:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2 52:11

I think she's fantastic. Um, and I can't wait to talk about her more. But speaking of women. Speaking of women, yeah. So each episode we're gonna have like a woman of the day.

unknown 52:21

Yes.

Speaker 2 52:22

Um, and for this first episode, we have to talk about Yuna Hollander, Shane's mom, also the world's biggest metro fan.

Speaker 1 52:29

The world's biggest metro fan, the most beautiful hockey mom you've ever seen. And I have a theory that she has a bit of a crush on Ilya, but that's neither here nor there.

Speaker 2 52:36

Yeah, and played by Christina Chang, um, who she's she's been in TV a lot. I've seen her in in various things, and I think she does a great job, just like every actor in this show. She does a great job. And so let's just talk about like her introduction and you know, like what's her deal? What's what's her character?

Speaker 1 52:54

Well, she's Shane's momager. Yes. She is giving Chris Jenner of 2008. Yes. Um, we'll learn more about her, and like she's not a bad mom. I think she's just an intense one. And I think unfortunately, she is a source of a lot of pressure that Shane feels, especially that whole, like, you know, as one of the few Asian kids, they're looking up to you. She likes to remind them about that and all like these brand deals.

Speaker 2 53:17

And I think what she wants is the best for Shane. Yes. She wants him to be successful. And I think and she does love hockey. I'm sure it was like fucking amazing when she realized how good Shane was. She was like, Yes, I can be involved in the hockey world. And we get to see her run into Ilya. Yeah, oh my gosh. Yeah, that scene in the elevator. Yeah, in the elevator is great. Like, and you see like the fear on Ilya's face. He's like, please don't make me ride in an elevator with Shane's scary mom. Um, and I love her just being like, oh, okay. And then she's like, she wants to be all like nice and polite. But yeah, I think I think Yuna just wants what's best for Shane. And I think she really sees them as a team.

Speaker 1 53:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2 53:59

Um, I don't think she sees herself as like being controlling, even though I think she she can kind of be. And I think if she and Shane were to have like a real like serious conversation about it, that that might come up. But I think like Shane is, and and I think Shane probably does see her as like a part of his team, especially when he's younger. I think it gets a little tiresome as he gets older. I don't think she's trying to be cruel or greedy. I just think everything she does is part of her plan for how her son is going to be successful and to be set up for life. He's gonna, he she wants him to have like financial security and success.

Speaker 1 54:34

Yeah. And I I love the the the scene where they he gets lunch with his parents and their little like conversation about YouTube, which is really adorable. Because mind you, this is like what, 2008? So YouTube was recently on the scene, and the way they talk about it is very like, okay, YouTube is pretty early on. I mentioned how I think Yuna has a little crush on Ilya. I say that extremely lightheartedly. Please don't come for me. I just think there is a bit of a because Yuna loves hockey and Ilya isn't another great player on the same level as Shane. So I'm sure that the deep down there's like respect and admiration there, but also because it's her son's rival, she like hates him. Because she brings him up at the lunch because we see Shane watching his cocky interview where he's like, I'm gonna get 40 goals or whatever. I'm gonna get 50. 50. And she's like, could you believe that he said that?

Speaker 2 55:16

And then uh Yuna's husband, uh David, as I refer to him, yeah. Um, David Hollander, who I I love, and that actor is Dylan Walsh, who I know from Niptuck, which very different characters, very different show, also very sexy, but I would say that's a little bit more of an exploitative sex scene kind of show. Um, but David is just like a sweet little guy, and he like he just clearly isn't as like in on the hockey world.

Speaker 1 55:42

Which is funny because we learn later he isn't he did play hockey like in college and stuff, and yes, but he's like trying to engage with Shane about the YouTube thing, and and and then Yuna comes up with you should be watching about hockey.

Speaker 2 55:54

Yeah, I think David recognizes that Shane, like maybe like, or I think he recognizes that like, well, Shane has a life outside of hockey. Right. And you know, I think he's not as like stick to the plan as Yuna is, and I think like he maybe gives Shane an opportunity to like not be talking about hockey. But Yuna's too busy saying, fuck Ilya right up the butt. Fuck Rosanoff right up the butt. And Shane's like little laugh that he does. And her being like, I'm sorry, I mean it.

Speaker 1 56:19

That's such a mom fu like I just love her.

Speaker 2 56:22

It's I think that I think she does a really good job of making the dialogue sound very natural. I I think it's really fun. I also like something that happens in this scene because they're talking about the different videos um that Shane sees in like the rabbit hole. And he says the first thing he says is like, oh, you know, like unlikely animals becoming friends, like a tiger and a bear and like the snake and the baby, um, which I think is very much like, you know, it's like what he's dealing with Ilya, like they shouldn't be friends, they shouldn't be doing this. You know, they're rivals. Um, and David is, he's like, I want to hear more about the snake and baby. He's like trying to engage. And I wonder if David gets a little sick of hockey talk. Probably. He just but he's like, he's very much like, he really he's a wife guy, I would say. Yeah, he's just along for the ride. Yeah, and so he's like, whatever, because like you know, I think the 50 goals thing, like Yuna says, like, don't you remember? Like, I was so pissed about that. And he's like, I don't know, you were like mad about Rosanoff turning 40 or something. And I was trying to match your level of outrage. And it's like, David, you never will. But yeah, so I that's Yuna Hollander, and we will talk about her more. Yes, I think. But I I wanted to just highlight her and really give a chance for us to talk about her scenes and and the actor who plays her because I think she's great, and I'm excited for more of that. But now I think we should talk about the MLH Awards. Yes. Okay, so the MLH Awards, we're talking Rookie of the Year, um, which Shane wins and he is excited about. And I feel like again, I feel like this whole episode, Shane keeps feeling like he's losing to Ilya, even though, like, kind of towards like he like towards the middle of the episode, like Shane begins to like win, win, win, win, win.

Speaker 3 57:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2 57:59

Um, but I think he still feels like in inadequacy with Ilya. And maybe that comes from the fact that Ilya is so much more comfortable with this other part of their relationship, the sex stuff. Like, Ilya's so much more comfortable, and I feel like maybe Shane feels like he's losing to Ilya in that regard. Okay, so we're at the MLH awards.

Speaker 1 58:18

We get a little bit more Scott Hunter with the your boy Rosanoff thing and yes, and we yeah, we just see this like there's always this underlining panic with Shane because he's like, What? My boy? Yeah, I didn't even love him. What? Shut up.

Speaker 2 58:28

I do have to point out that he is drinking ginger ale when Scott Hunter walks up to him. Um, and he's like, I would never indulge in front of you. Just like so what a cute little baby. Um, yeah, and then they do shots, and Shane clearly doesn't like doing the shots, but he gets a little drunk and then he's looking for Ilya. You see him looking around, you see him like, you know, he's he sees his dad talking to somebody, probably just talking about like shooting the shit or something. You see Yuna talking to somebody. I like to think it's a coach of another team and she's giving him pointers on how to make their season better next year or something. Um, but then he goes up to the roof and he finds Ilya. And I think this scene really encapsulates their miscommunication. You can see that I think Ilya is constantly saying one thing and meaning another. And I think that's just the way he's he's had to grow up. Um, and and we also have the language barrier thing where like Ilya can't fully express himself in English the way he can in Russian.

Speaker 1 59:23

And Shane also, so Ilya doesn't have a great family, but Shane does. And I think that really blocks Shane from like clocking what's going on because I think Ilya says like he has to go home to Russia.

Speaker 2 59:34

He says, I go home in three days, and Shane's just like, oh, like good. He can't comprehend not wanting to go home.

Speaker 1 59:41

And I think because he misses that, maybe if he had picked that up a little more, Ilya would have divulged further in, but because Shane completely kind of misses that And we haven't really talked about Shane being autistic yet. Yeah.

Speaker 2 59:53

Because that is subtext, that's not actually like in the show, it's never explicitly stated in, I don't think in the books or in the show, but it's very much how Hudson plays the character, and I think how the character is viewed. And so it's harder for him to pick up on some of those social cues. Yes. Um, and so he he just doesn't understand what Ilya is saying, and then this is also where we get the frustration that Shane feels coming out and being like, all you do is beat me, which again isn't hasn't really been true for the second half of the episode.

Speaker 3 1:00:23

Right.

Speaker 2 1:00:23

And like I win one fucking thing, and it's he clearly wants something from Ilya, but I don't think he knows what he wants.

Speaker 1 1:00:29

Well, he probably yeah, he wants him to give him a big kiss and said, Good job, honey, but uh they don't have that kind of relationship, so it is just like frustration.

Speaker 2 1:00:37

Yeah, and so then they're yelling at each other and Ilya smoking a cigarette, and like, you know, throughout the show, we get you shouldn't smoke, like stop smoking, that sort of thing. Um, and and we we just get this like tension, and then Ilya tries to bring it to the place he always tries to bring it to us, which is the physical, sexual place. He's like, This is all I know how to do with you. But Shane, and Shane is into it for a second, but then he freaks out because he's like, anyone could walk on this roof, not here. Again, not here where anyone could find us. Right. Um and then he walks away, or I I love what happens here because sh uh Ilya has Shane up against the wall, and then Shane flips it around. And I think Ilya's kind of excited, like, oh, you're gonna you're gonna push me up against the wall and kiss me. But instead, Shane like backs off and he's like, no, and he walks away. And at first, Ilya tries to be like, Oh, see you next season, and like tries to make a joke, but then you really see the like sorrow on his face. Like, I think Ilya wants more with Shane than he can have. He just does not think he will ever be able to have it, and I think that informs a lot of the decisions he makes throughout the show.

Speaker 1 1:01:42

Yeah, and especially what happens with like the next episode and stuff.

Speaker 2 1:01:45

Yeah, really excited to talk about the next episode, but I think that's all we have.

Speaker 1 1:01:49

Well, I can't we have so much to talk about, and we really flew through that hour with episode one. So I mean we're excited to talk about episode two next week, and we hope you guys are having fun too.

Speaker 2 1:01:59

Yeah, and and I think in future episodes we'll talk about how we'll talk more about how this is a period piece.

Speaker 1 1:02:04

Oh, yeah. I mean, we go this is the first real millennial period piece that we get, and yeah, it because we pet we span like nine, ten years, and they do such a good job with the hair and the styling choices, and then even like the music and the references, and yeah.

Speaker 2 1:02:20

Well, even like the hair and the makeup to make them look younger versus older, and also the physic the physicality um from the actors changes over time. I think that first scene they do such a good job of making them look like little babies, and the way Ilya's hair uh is styled changes to show like him growing older. I think unfortunately Shane stays with that shitty fucking haircut that Hudson hates.

Speaker 1 1:02:42

I think it changes like a little bit, but not much.

Speaker 2 1:02:45

Not very much, yeah, absolutely. Um, but yeah, so we're excited to get into more. Um again, episodes drop every Monday, so look out for us next week. If you want to get in touch with us, you can follow us on TikTok and Instagram at Sex Sells Pod, S-E-X-S-E-L-L-S-P-O-D. Mm-hmm. And then also because, you know, the world uh outside of heated rivalry is not such a fun place. Um, we do just want to say, you know, if you want to support Palestine, you can check out the Palestine Children's Relief Fund. That's a great place to start. If you want to learn more about the Zionist project here in America and particularly and why people are saying that criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic, which it's not. But if you want to learn more about that, you can check out the podcast Bad Hasbara and A Bit Fruity. Um, just to learn more. And Bad Hasbara in particular, every episode within the first five minutes, they talk about a different relief fund or a way that you can support people in Gaza. So if you want more places you can go to to donate money or spread the word about, definitely check out Bad Hasbara.

Speaker 1 1:03:51

And uh until next time, celebrate life. Don't let them shame you for being horny, and it's okay to be gay. Yay, we did it.