Sex Sells: A Heated Rivalry Podcast

Episode 4: this is not enough

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#secretfuckbuddy #jealousy #beard

This week on Sex Sells, em and rainbow talk about episode four of Heated Rivalry, "Rose", discussing sudden displays of intimacy in the form of a tuna melt and ginger ale as a metaphor for comphet.

Learn more about Harrison Browne and the inclusion of Trans folks in sports: 

TikTok of Harrison Browne on being included in Heated Rivalry 

The National Women's Law Center statement about Trans women in women's sports. 

The Open Academy article on the inclusion of Trans men in men's sports. 

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Intro/Outro courtesy of magpiemusic on pixabay

SPEAKER_00

Hello everyone, I'm Rainbow, they she. And I'm Em, and this is Sex Cells, a heated rivalry podcast. And today we are talking about episode four, Rose. What a great episode title. We're not talking about your Rose toy. We're not talking about that song that's like and that's all I can give you for copyright.

SPEAKER_01

Listen, if you've watched Game Changers or if you not Game Changers, listen, if you've watched the grumps, you know what we're talking about. I just want to say right off the bat, I think this might be my favorite episode.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's, you know, we've been tortured. We've been away from our boys for weeks after we didn't even kiss.

SPEAKER_01

I know, and it feels insane to say that when the cottage exists, and like that seems like it's like genetically engineered to be everyone's favorite episode. And I do love it. There's just something about what happens in this episode. I think because like like as a story, I like a little bit of angst. Yeah. I wanna I wanna see a little bit of it. I want them staring at each other across in that club.

SPEAKER_00

This episode really pushes our couple to, and I'm using Love Island lingo here. They've they've coupled up. Um they've been choosing. You know, because in the first, like in the cold open, we get pretty much like from 2014 to 2016, and they've really kind of, you know, despite the the drama of we didn't kiss, it seems like they've gotten over that and they're continuing the situationship, and they've really gotten into a routine, you know, they have their own summers, and we can see that Shane is a much more homebody reading books while Ilya's partying it up. But then as the um the season is going on, they meet up when they can and they hook up and they really get into a groove and they're texting more and more. We're to the point where people around them are noticing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, again, the parallels between this episode and episode two are so strong. Like, we get another like great song with My Moon, My Man, um, and we get them texting back and forth. And then we also get to see a little change in like the technology they're using to show us that time is passing. I feel like their hair is changing a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like it's such a unique challenge of doing a period piece of the 2000s and 2010s because technology was moving so rapidly. As soon as the iPhone hit in 07, it was takeoff. So that's a lot of little details you have to keep track of.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, absolutely. But I really love what we get here. And I mean, just to talk about the filmmaking for a second, the editing of like, I mean, I don't think it needs to be said, but the slamming up against the boards and then slamming his head down in the bed.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it's so good, Jacob Tierney. She is really good at giving us a montage with the passage of time and still knowing pretty much exactly where these characters' heads are at.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, absolutely. I also want to note that at the very beginning of the episode, like when they're facing off on the ice, um, we have Ilya like talking to Shane and like clearly like baiting him a little bit. And Shane actually looks in Ilya's eyes. Whereas we got a moment like that in I think the first episode, and Shane like couldn't look him in the eyes. I think like a second his eyes flip up and then they flip down. I think that's just showing the comfortability that Shane has with Ilya. I think that's what's so great about this show. Even those subtle moments are teaching us something, and like I think we can like on a subconscious level, we can understand that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think that's what I was starting to get at with the couples being pushed to like, I think they're getting to a place where it's getting really hard to ignore that there's not something more serious going on. I mean, even Svetlana in the car is like isn't I thought maybe it was getting serious or something.

SPEAKER_01

I have a lot to say about Svetlana in this episode in her clocking Ilya. Um, do we want to get into that right now? We don't have to. Okay, let's let's let's let's talk.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and also in this montage, uh Shane wins the cup. Just just Shane, not the team. Uh, two years in a row, and I love the parallel. The first year, Ilya is alone, and he's just watching with like a soft, proud smile, very reminiscent of when Shane watched. And then the following year, Ilya has people over, probably a watch party thing, and he's putting on a show of, oh, it should have been me. But you know, deep down he's like, my baby got it twice in a year. He got it twice in a row. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I also was thinking, do you think they filmed all of the like winning the cup scenes at the same time? Like Ilya's, then Shane's two, and then the Scott Kid thing.

SPEAKER_00

I love to put on my my my uh set brain. Yeah, I'm like they're they're filming but logistically, so like I'm sure they're using up locations when they can, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think we've mentioned it yet, but Jacob Tierney's book, All Believe in Anything, The Making of Heated Rivalry, the TV show, is coming out. We talked about this the other day. I mentioned it to you. You don't listen to me.

SPEAKER_00

I do listen to you, I do drugs.

SPEAKER_01

No, you're right, you're right. And you have ADHD. It's not fair of me to say that. No, but so his book um came out. I did pre-order it already, of course. Don't worry. I'm so excited. Um, maybe we even do a podcast episode about it where we discuss it.

SPEAKER_00

It's too bad we can't have it now to give more like filmmaking fun facts.

SPEAKER_01

I know, I know. I think it comes out in October this year, 2026. So I'm really excited about that. And I'll be interested to see if they talk about like I wonder how nitty-gritty is gonna get with those logistical things because I think that's so fascinating. I love talking about that kind of shit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I wonder, I'm sure like the more technical stuff gets cut because it's like, will audiences care? I will.

SPEAKER_01

I will care so much. I mean, I think we've said it before, but I want like a full like two-hour long making of heated rivalry. I think bring back the special features, everybody. We want them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I also I'm just looking through my notes for this early section of the episode. And I love this is actually right before the scene I was referencing with Svetlana in the car with him. But like, as Svetlana's trying to get ready, Ilya is just casually watching Shane's odd little like documentary about his cabin, which like, oh my god, the foreshadowing because he's talking about the cabin he had built by his parents' house, all this stuff. So that's foreshadowing for the cabin, obviously. But then we have Svetlana who's like, what are you watching? And Ilya, like, I it's like putting on like fan fiction on the big TV. What are you fucking doing? Like, you are just not being subtle. And Svetlana is like, he is hot though, huh? And he immediately shuts the TV off. He does not like when other people acknowledge how good looking Shane is.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, well, because he knows that he can't admit that Shane is hot without revealing a little something about himself. I think especially to Svetlana. Um, yeah, I I also want to talk about, you know, the passage of time is being worked in so many ways. And I think we're also seeing the way that they fuck changing, or at least what's revealed to us, because the first thing we get is like full-on, like rough fucking, like pushing him into the bed or the couch, wherever they are, and then like the sucking dick in the shower, and then it's them like kissing each other up the stairs, like the excitement that Shane is showing, which contrasts with the end of the episode with Rose, which we'll get into. And I just think that's really good. It's not just showing that like they're getting more comfortable with each other, but also that they are into each other because like they're checking the calendar and they're just like texting each other, aren't you so excited? And we see Ilya not caring as much about like when he's on summer break and he's partying with Svetlana, he's like playing with his, he's like looking at his phone, like texting Shane, which like what's the time difference here? Is Shane even awake right now? Like, or are you just reading back through your text messages?

SPEAKER_00

And we see that progression within that two-year span. Because the first year, yeah, he's clubbing with the girls, he's making out, and then yeah, we get that shot of he's texting, and this girl tries to approach him, and he just kind of gives her a look. So, like, and then Svetlana notices it too. So, yeah, it's just it's the truth is closing in from all sides. You can't hide your love.

SPEAKER_01

And you know what? I think I am ready to talk about Svetlana. We brought her up a couple times, and I love her so much. We talked about her recently in episode two, but I really appreciate that like she is no fucking fool. She knows exactly what's going on, she knows that you're texting somebody, and I think she's starting to figure out who it is. I think Svetlana knows, like, by the time she asks, like, oh, not even Jane, I think she's got an inkling of who this person is. And in episode five, when they have that conversation at his dad's funeral, we'll talk about it, but like, she knows. She knows it's Shane. Because as you pointed out, these aren't slick nicknames.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

Also, Ilya is so weird every time they talk about Shane. And I think that's something I almost wish we could have seen this to prove my point, but I have a feeling that like I bet I don't know if they've openly talked about Ilya being queer. I bet that's not so that's like an unspoken thing between them. Svetlana clearly knows she tried to set him up with Sasha. I think when they're in the car and she ends with Sasha says hi, that's her being like, I know you're doing some gay shit right now. You can't hide that from me. Yeah. But I I bet that in the past, I bet they've been able to talk about how hot guys are. Like, I bet she's able to say, and like it, he can just play it off as like, oh, I'm I'm secure in my sexuality, I can call other guys hot. But I bet when it's the two of them, like I bet he's talked about how he thinks Scott Hunter is hot. And so for him to like not admit that Shane is hot when he objectively is, is a sign. She's like, Oh, really? You're you're not gonna agree with me that this hot-ass guy on your screen that you were just watching isn't hot? Hmm, that's interesting. I wonder why.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like it might be in the next episode too, where she says, You know he's good and you know he's hot. Like she's so done. Like you can't, and it it's so fascinating to me. And maybe I'm being obtuse, but like, of why he can't just like share this with Svetlana. Is it the fear of anyone overhearing or like saying it out loud? Yeah, like have they not really gotten to the point where they actually acknowledge it to each other? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I think, yeah, I think he feels like he has to, I mean, it's it's a secret, and it's a secret he has to keep from everyone his in his life, including Svetlana. And I don't know if there's something about the fact that like they are like they've got this friends with benefits thing, which I really appreciate in the car when she's like when he says, like, oh, are you jealous? And she's like, I think you know me well enough. And I like totally believe her. I'm like, Svetlana, I think, is like a solo poly queen and is like does not like she's like, I don't care what you do, like I'm gonna fuck who I wanna fuck, you fuck who you wanna fuck. Sometimes we fuck each other, like whatever that doesn't matter to me. But I think like she recognizes that he's not being honest with her. And I think when they were back in Russia and when they were younger and he like had to deal with his father more, I think it makes more sense. And I think now she's kind of like, hey man, you're like living in America, like you can be honest with me at least. And I think that's why we see, you know, her giving him that talk in in episode five, which I'll I'll leave that conversation for when we get to it. Um, but just to say Svetlana is a smart person. Um, and I do love that in this show the women that are with these guys are not being like fooled in any way. Yes, they're not just like clueless, like, oh no, I had no idea he might be gay. No, they feel like real people, which is nice. Yes, absolutely. And we'll get to another real person later in this episode.

SPEAKER_00

Um, before we move on from this section, though, I did I liked your notes I'm stealing about the again just showing little differences between their life, especially the dad differences. Because we get a direct, we see Ilya giving his dad pills and probably trying to call his fucking fuck ass loser ass brother. Yes. And then we cut to Shane and his dad just taking a little walk and talking about hockey in the house and the mom. Like it's such a nice family life in comparison.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I just have to say, I think the actor who plays Ilya's dad, hang on, I have his name. Um, the actor who plays Ilya's dad, Yarsilov Proverlo, I think I'm saying that right. Apologies if I'm not. He is Russian, but I think he does a good job because just that small scene where Ilya is like handing him the water and the confusion on his face. Both of my parents, or not my parents, both of my grandparents had dementia when they were older, and that just like really hit me. And I think Connor does a good job of like showing the like stress that Ilya is under because it is hard taking care of somebody who is just like losing their sense of self, their memory of who they used to be. Like, and like when it progresses to a certain extent, they like lose a lot of different functions, and that's very stressful. And the fact that Ilya has to go home and deal with that every summer, like you know, Shane gets to like relax at his cottage, and Ilya has to go back and deal with his family and and take care of his family, and then he has to leave, and I think that hurts him, like that he can't be there all the time. Do we have anything else we want to say about this part?

SPEAKER_00

No, I was gonna say, do we want to move on to lotion? La ocean? To what? The the fucking aquarium they go to. The big screen has La Ocean on it. La ocean!

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, yes, I didn't even notice that. I was too busy looking at the jellyfish because I think they look cool. I know. Well it was taking me back to going to Monterey with you, and it was so much fun. Oh my god, cannot recommend taking an edible and sitting in front of that deep sea tank.

SPEAKER_00

No, so I fucking Shane and uh Hayden's little friendship is so cute. I love them. I love boys stay out taking the kids, like probably giving Jackie a break. And this is another nice little filmmaking trick of like the little kids are always off-screen. He's kind of yelling at them off-screen so they don't have to pay two children actors, and he's probably holding, well, I think he's holding a real baby. I was gonna say he's holding a doll, probably in some shots. Yeah. But we get Omega Shane. It felt very, and I bet it wasn't even, but it felt very fan service-y because, you know, he makes a joke about what you want to get me pregnant next, he's holding the baby. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and do we want to talk about Omega Verse just for a second? Because this is such like a fan fiction-focused podcast.

SPEAKER_00

I think we should.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and so for those of you who don't know, Omega Verse is, I would say it's like a sub-genre at this point of fan fiction.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just imagining my friend Panda listening to this episode and getting to this part.

SPEAKER_01

Does she is she not into Omega Verse? Or she knows.

SPEAKER_00

She'll just be thrilled. We've sent each other a picture of like the word Omega that we see in the wild. Yes. No, you're kidding me? She's into TI BL. It's all that's true. No, oh my god, you guys watched an Omega verse show together. We sure did. It was horrible, by the way. This out Um, ABO desire, terrible. Um, but no, um, so yeah, it was invented. Well, it was a twin, it was a Winces fic.

SPEAKER_01

It wasn't a Winces fic. It was an RPF fic of the actors who play the Winchester brothers in Supernatural. There is layers to this. And it involves And so it's it's the idea, there's it's it's it's a very like animalistic thing, I would say. There's like a second gender, and there's uh different authors do different things with it, but the basic of it is there's alphas, there's betas, there's omegas. I think sometimes betas aren't there, but yeah, um, it basically is a way for like people of like a certain gender to have different anatomy. So omegas have wombs and like they natur, you know, the self-slicking holes and stuff like that. Um and and basically like men can get pregnant, and then also if you're like me and you like film omega verse, then women can get other women pregnant, and I do enjoy that.

SPEAKER_00

But t stereotypically, you know, you got your alphas, and they're usually like, I'm an alpha, and I'm big and strong, and I'm going into rut, and I have to bite you, and then the mega's like, oh my gosh, you're gonna bite me. Uh and like, and then people have since really diverted stereotypes and switched things up, and it's fun, and it should have never gone into the mainstream.

SPEAKER_01

I think it's a fascinating thing to look at. I think from a world-building perspective, I think it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00

Before I knew about Omega Verse, people, and I think before it was as popular, there was also Mpreg, which is just male pregnancy, and I wrote uh some Glee Mpreg back in the day.

SPEAKER_01

Well, an Mpreg, I want to say that goes all the way back to the Star Trek fanfictions. I think it I can't remember if it was Kirk getting Spock pregnant or Spock getting Kirk pregnant, but that was the first instance of Mpreg, and Mpreg is a big part of Omega Verse. I'm not really like a pregnancy kind of person. I tend to like skip M-preg stuff. I just I tend to filter it out. Um, but that can be a big part of it for people.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and people would argue that's the whole goddamn point. Yeah, I think that's and I'm not bringing that up to challenge you. I'm just bringing it up as like this is kind of the discourse that has developed and surrounded now as people have come in and done and like they yeah, they like different things about it. Some people like the chase, the bite, like the animalists are like, I have to have you, I'm gonna go crazy type of thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the like sex or die, sex or die, sex pollen. There's a lot, it's it's really like brought together a lot of fanfic tropes, and it's I just think it's very interesting. And there is like like non-explicit ABO out there. Like some people really do just like exploring the like gender dynamics of having second genders. Um, so yeah, I think it's really interesting. But bringing it back to heated rivalry, all that being said, I have seen, I think there's some debate on whether or not I think everybody agrees, like Ilya Alpha. Yeah, obviously. And I think a lot of people talk about Omega Shane, but I've also seen in our friend actually Froggy has talked about she thinks of them as Alpha for Alpha.

SPEAKER_00

The woke mafia.

SPEAKER_01

Which I I totally understand, and I think that goes with like the rivalry thing, but I think also the Alpha Omega, I think that dynamic works for them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And and I think even somebody said to Hudson Williams, like during the press tour, like, people are writing about Shane getting pregnant. Stop telling them, guys. Stop! Which, like, please don't and his he was like not prepared for. I mean, this is the man who said, like, be more freakier, and it's like, you should not have done that.

SPEAKER_00

The thing is, people think they're freaky. I want you to meet a group of queers who have been writing fanfic for 10 plus years. They're freaky. Yeah. You don't know what freaky is. Get out of my kitchen.

SPEAKER_01

How many people learned about frauding from this episode? Seriously. Like, so anyway, so but I do think it's so funny to get like, oh, you're gonna get me pregnant now, and it's like, people some people will.

SPEAKER_00

Some people you're pregnant in several universes right now. Right? But this begins what I think is a big theme of this episode is like society in many different facets, through his friends, family, and then just like people in the world, are pushing Shane into, I almost want to say into adulthood, into an expectant, like, okay, a few years have gone by. They're in their mid-twenties, like, it's time to do some things.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's compet. I would not say that they're pushing him into adulthood. They're pushing him into the hetero-patriarchal idea of what you're supposed to be doing in life.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, I think maybe less adulthood and more just into a certain box because I'm equating there's because Hayden starts picking, I picking at, like, hey, what about that girl you t used to talk to, which I'm sure is a girl Shane fucking made up. He's trying Jackie wants to set him up with a friend. I think it's compet and then also like just not being himself because there's also this ginger ale thing that keeps popping up where like my boy, and I really relate, as another neuro neurodivergent who doesn't like booze and would much rather have a little Pepsi with dinner. Several times he asks for ginger ale and like especially like any like the wait staff that shows up are like uh no, you weirdo. Do you don't you want some pom pom pinot noir or whatever? But anyway, yeah, I just feel like this comes up again and again where Shane is feeling very forced into what people expect of him.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and I think the only place he feels like he can be himself in this way is with Ilya. Yes. And I think even Ilya challenges that a little bit, but in a different way. We'll talk about that when we get to the tuna melt scene. But I want to talk a little bit more about Hayden and Jackie, if we could, because we start the scene with Hayden telling Shane that Jackie's pregnant again with her fourth kid. And that he thinks she must just be bored or something. He says, yeah, once they get in in front of the big screen with the jellyfish, he says, like, I don't know, I think she's bored or something, which if I can get on my soapbox for a second. That's crazy. That's are you fucking kidding me? That is the most like dad who travels a lot for work thing I have ever heard. Like, I cannot imagine a woman who already has three kids, two of whom we see are like running around crazy, which maybe they don't act like that with Jackie because she actually knows how to like parent them. Um, whereas Hayden just like knows to say like fuck and call them the worst. She already has three kids, and I hope she has a really good support system and people to like help her. Like maybe she's got family or like friends, a mom group, something. We don't know enough about Jackie to know any of those things about her. I'd say she is like the least well-developed female character. We barely get anything from her.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And for Hayden to say, I guess she's bored, I like it that just pisses me off. I'm like, you know what, Hayden? Actually, you're going down a peg in my book. Um, your friendship with Shane and your support for him will never get you past that level because you think your wife having a fourth kid is because she's bored. Anyway, um, I also want to say that Hayden's reaction to how Shane reacts, Shane's just like, what? Another one? Which I think is the appropriate reaction.

SPEAKER_00

Well, he's literally holding their baby. Yes. So not much time could have possibly passed. Yeah, like how, like, how recovered is her body? Like, please lay like let your body heal. I'm begging you. It's not the like middle ages anymore.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I also think that there is the societal idea that whenever somebody announces that they're pregnant, that that is an automatic celebration, which is incorrect. I think that's a very like anti-choice sentiment that is shown throughout the world because like Hayden says, like, oh, or you're supposed to say congratulations. And not everyone wants to be pregnant. Not everyone who's saying that they're pregnant is because they want to have this baby and it's a joy for them. And I would have liked to know how Jackie feels about having a fourth child.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, I think she definitely suffers the most from being kind of a cardboard. Like she's just a wag. Yeah. And that's her whole personality, is she just is on standby until the boys come over and she can give them drinks. Like, it's fucking weird.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I think um the response when somebody says they're pregnant, I think you should ask them how they feel about that before you give any kind of emotive response to it.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's so weird because I it's that that's hard because you're trying to approach it nicely, but then if you're approaching people who think you should just be excited, they'll be offended by your reaction.

SPEAKER_01

And you know what? I'm willing to take that risk. Like, I would rather offend somebody in that direction and explain myself than to automatically assume that them being pregnant is something they want to celebrate and that they're happy about because it is a scary experience for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00

And that's the only way you start changing how people think of things.

SPEAKER_01

So absolutely. And I just want to touch one more thing on the Hayden Shane conversation. Shane's like when they're talking. About, like, oh, I'm gonna set you up with this friend of Jackie's, and he's just like, Good, Jackie will be happy. And Shane says, Oh, I have to keep your wife happy too. And she says, and he says, if you want her to keep stocking my house with ginger ale. And that line is so interesting because it's implying if you want to be safe and comfortable in my home and being friends with me, you have to be the way that we are. You have to be heterosexual, you have to show us that you're living the same kind of life we are. Otherwise, no gender ale for you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think that happens so much where people say these like light-hearted things. And if you would were to point that out, they'd be like, Well, I didn't mean it like that. But it doesn't even matter if you did. It is those tiny little subtleties that put this pressure on us, like that we don't even really feel of like it's not okay for you to be who you are. It's inconveniencing us, it's weirding us out. Like, just do what you're supposed to do. Order the booze at dinner, bring the Swedish princess to the to the tennis game. Like, just do what you're supposed to do. Yeah. So, yeah, as we were saying, you know, the only person who makes him feel okay about the ginger ale and about who he is as a person is Ilya. And this is the thing. So they're in Boston, and Shane is being so conspicuous about his connection with Ilya. Because again, now, you know, we've seen Svetlana clocking Ilya. Hayden clocks Shane and is like, oh, you going off to see Lily? And he's like, I know you texted Lily. Again, you know, we just saw in the cold open. They've been texting, and Shane's been, or uh Hayden's been with him, you know, peeping over. You know, it's not even about like looking through someone's phone. After a while, you just notice things about your best friend. And Shane is so like, what? No? Uh-uh. Uh uh. Like, dude, just go along with it. But you know, he's not, he's not a good liar. That's really not who he is. So, but that Hayden is just like, go on, get out of here. I want to jerk off.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and then so we get to Ilya's house, and I this is the first time Shane has been to Ilya's house.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, because he's like, who oh, he knocks on the wall instead of the door, and then he's like, Who built this?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yes, they're yeah, and they're having this this um little back and forth. And Shane once again is like, should we talk? Um, and I do wonder how much of that was like, should we talk about? I don't think that was as much like should we talk about what you're doing, but I feel like Shane's like, okay, the like social rules say we're supposed to have small talk before we do anything. And I think he really just wants to get down to it too. He knows what their drill is. Yeah, yeah. But he's like, Why we come to your house the first time? Shouldn't we like have a polite conversation? And then we can fuck. And Ilya's like, no, no, no, I want you now. I'm gonna set you down on this counter so we can fuck.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes, and then we get a my one of my favorite sex shots is Shane writing Ilya and his butt and the little stretch marks on his butt. It's just so good. Ride him into the mattress.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that's that's great. And then the flipping over, and then the like focus on the necklace. Uh, just really good filmmaking.

SPEAKER_00

There's gotta be something to that necklace. Because, and I say it because I when and I'm moving forward a little bit here, but when Ilya's doing the phone call, he like fiddles with it afterwards, and I'm just I'm looking forward to reading the book and seeing if that's like an heirloom from his mom or something.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I assume it is. That's what it seems to me, or it's just something he's always have as I am holding my necklace that you gave me that I also use as like a touchstone. Yeah, so yeah, I'm sure it's got some like significance to him. Because Ilya doesn't seem particularly religious or anything.

SPEAKER_00

No, I mean, no. But that's necklace has been on this whole time.

SPEAKER_01

So they do their fucking and then Shane said it's time to go. This is the this is the rule, this is how it works. They fuck, and you know, then one of them leaves. But Ilya changes the script.

SPEAKER_00

He changes the script, and how interesting after we saw Skip ask each other to stay, Ilya felt a vibration in the universe and was like, I should ask my situation ships to stay.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I'm curious about this because this is also after the conversation in the car with Svetlana, where she says, like, oh, is it serious? And he's like, No, it's not serious or anything. And we know from episode five that Ilya says, No, we can't be anything. Do you think this is him maybe? I don't know if it's conscious or subconscious, him being like, maybe Shane and I can be something.

SPEAKER_00

I just feel like they've been doing this for so long, and he just wants more. And I think he just thought maybe he could let himself have just a little bit more. And then he gets punished for it. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Which I and this is another situation I think, just like with Skip in last episode, where it's like I understand where they are both coming from, and I don't necessarily think either of them did anything particularly wrong. They're just reacting. And I think it's like compl I'm very empathetic towards both of them because like Ilya is like he is changing things up on Shane, and you can see that Shane's confused. Like, he's like, You want me to stay? You're switching up his routine. Absolutely. And I think he I think he is happy about it. I think he does feel some joy. Um, but I think he just feels so much joy towards the end that he's like, Oh, I this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, this is not how I make sure Jackie keeps buying ginger ale for me.

SPEAKER_00

I think the happiness really scares him, and especially like when you feel so seen and comfortable in a world where you usually don't, because yeah, Ilya, he says he's hungry, so he makes them both sandwiches and he's like, is your ginger ale cold enough? Like, I really relate, like being in a relationship with you, I have felt more patience and kindness and love than ever before in a relationship. That is crazy. It's such a fucked up, it's not fucked up, but it's just so crazy to be like, oh, like I can be loved in the way that makes sense for me and the way that I want. And it's not weird that I just want a little ginger ale, and it's not weird that I'm like this because there's people out there that will love and accept me. I better skedaddle. Yes. But no, so yeah, they're having their lunch, and then Ilya, uh, this is I think a big miscommunication piece for them because Shane is 100% gay. I don't think he knows that yet, yet, like, fully realize that in his mind, but he is. Whereas Ilya is bi, and I think Ilya is really approaching this whole thing as like, because he starts asking about girls and if he likes any girls, and he's telling about Svetlana, and Shane doesn't like to hear about it. Lord knows I don't like to hear about my situationships, other flings either. But I think that's Ilya's way of like, okay, like if you get yourself a girl, like we can keep doing this.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I guess that's my question. That's that's something I wonder about this scene. Is like, and I think it could be multiple things. Like, is it Ilya like trying to figure out if Shane likes girls? Like, he never hears about Shane with girls, and Shane does say he's very private. Um, which I think that makes sense for he's like, obviously, and Ilya's like, Well, you're private with me for a reason. Like, you don't have to be private like that with a girl. So I wonder if that's him wondering. And I wonder, I do wonder if he's like, like we were saying, like, hey, if you get yourself a beard.

SPEAKER_00

It's almost like another facet of Shane's life being like, you should get a girlfriend. And he's the only one saying it as like as a cover, but still it's like that another pressure.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and I think it's a reminder. I think Shane, like, we talked about this, I think, in episode one, where he hasn't really thought about this part of himself at all. Ilya really awakens that in him. And I think he until recently, he hasn't realized that he's not doing what he's quote unquote supposed to be doing. Right. And this is now even the person who he's fucking and who is his like secret situationship is also bringing up, hey, you're not doing the things you're supposed to be doing. Maybe if you do that, like we can keep doing this and we can say each other's names after we come. Oh my god. Oh, the the fucking horrible ADR. Uh yeah, that is the one thing about this scene that is upsetting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because after this after lunch and this like awkward girl conversation, Ilya gets a call from his poor confused dad with his fuck-ass brother nowhere to be seen. So he's arguing about that. And then he comes back and and Shane's like, how was Papa?

SPEAKER_01

Well, and there's so many things happening with this scene. I think Connor's doing a great job with the acting. I think the framing is really interesting. He's like off-center, it's like showing just like the the shoulders up. You can and it's like a little bit of a wide shot, so he like looks smaller, which is I saw an analysis where like when Ilya is dealing with his family, like he's like framed, it's farther away, so he looks smaller in the frame, and I think that's really interesting. We get to see him, we get to see him like regulate for a second, like try to reset and then come back to Shane, and he's trying to play it off as cool. But Shane's like, you can talk to me about this kind of stuff. And Ilya fucking melts.

SPEAKER_00

He looks very tickled, he's so endeared. Well, and to the point where then he's like, Alright, you know what? Let's cuddle on this couch a little bit. And that's really the first time we see that open, like, affection that's doesn't really have anything sexual to it. So obviously Shane then has to make it sexual.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, I mean he's he's getting he's closer to Ilya's dick now, and that like really does something to him. He's gotta put his mouth on it. Um, yeah, and so then they they they start they they get into it and like and it's so hot.

SPEAKER_00

It's very intimate. It's the what what did you title it in our notes? Frauding too close to the sun. Frauding too close to the sun, yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's it's very intimate, and we have the like fuck Collander, and like, are you gonna come for me, Rosenoff, and fucking make me? And their foreheads are together, and it's just like and it's like a beautiful moment between the two.

SPEAKER_00

I was watching that scene and remembering how I was telling my mom about this podcast, and I'm like, it's a romance. I don't know if you'll be super into it, but you can watch it here, and I'm like, I kind of hope she doesn't watch this. Yeah, and then have to listen to us talk about fraudding. The fraudding and the hand spitting, it is a little uh wrong.

SPEAKER_01

I will say the hand spitting, excellent work, people.

SPEAKER_00

Excellent work. That was great. Yeah, I wish you guys had remembered to have them say each other's first names in the scene instead of that incredibly badly put in ADR. Like God, just leave it out.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you it it's such an integral part of the scene. You have to have them saying each other's names. It does suck that it's ADR. And was it that they forgot to say it?

SPEAKER_00

They forgot to say it in the scene, I believe. Oh my god, they were literally just so into it. Which I mean, fair. This is why I couldn't be an actor because I would fall in love. I'd be like, what are we? Yeah, really. Absolutely. Um, but yeah, and so then Shane, like a fucking startled rabbit.

SPEAKER_01

Hudson does such a good job in this scene. His voice is shaking. You can tell he is so freaked out, his heart is beating so quickly.

SPEAKER_00

He's looking for the nearest exit. He's like, um, I forgot I had team meeting. And I love this detail because again, it shows how well Ilya really does know him. And he's like, You forgot meeting. Okay. And do you want to talk about the two Hollanders?

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, yeah, because Ilya, like, Ilya is like, he himself starts to panic and he's like, No, no, no, don't worry, we can go back to how it was. Hollander. Like he says Hollander and he says it first like he normally would. The second Hollander is very pleading. It breaks me. Oh my god. And Shane apologizes. He's like, I just can't, I can't do this. I'm sorry, I gotta go. And then he leaves, and then Ilya's just sitting there, and this feels like all this feels similar to the end of episode two with Vegas, when like it's Shane leaving, and it's Ilya just kind of like sitting there, like not knowing what to do with all these feelings he has.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And it's so, it's just so good. And and we really do see Ilya. This was like Ilya getting more and more vulnerable with Shane throughout this afternoon where he's like making him food, and he says, like, he admits to Shane that he likes him. He immediately covers it up with like, oh, not as person. Um, but you have a good mouth, and that's right before the phone call. But like he had a moment of vulnerability and then he had to take it to the sex place because that's what he always has to do. And then he has a moment of vul vulnerability where he says Shane's name, and then Shane freaks out and is going to leave, and that's gotta be such a mind fuck for Ilya. And it's a mind fuck for Shane. Like, I see, I see where they're both coming from here, and I think it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00

It's like they they allow themselves emotion and then immediately punish themselves and each other for it. Yes, and then we get the lunch scene with the parents.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, and Shane's very on edge. Yes, and I think now is when I want to talk about Shane and his sponsorships. Okay. Because we see in the beginning montage, we see the commercials that he's shooting, and he's doing his thing and he's into it. What, like, not really into it, but he's doing what he needs to do. But then at this lunch scene, we get Yuna talking about Rolex. Like, you love your deal with Rolex, they want to send you to Wimbledon. And he makes the comment of, like, oh, their tennis box is too tennisy. Is that do you mean it's too white? And I think he really feels is starting to feel resentful for having to like sell himself in this way. And we see later with the conversation with Rose that, like, this is not fun for him. This is like it takes the fun out of hockey for him. And so I think this is just another moment of just like another fucking sponsorship thing. Like, I just want to be a hockey player and then I just want to relax on my breaks. And I think we also get to see the interesting dynamic with his parents, where it's David is really the one who's like, Hey Shane, like are you doing okay? And I I like the way that Shane reacts to it, where I feel like he recognizes, like, oh, if my dad is like talking to me this way, maybe I am oh not necessarily overreacting, but like, oh, maybe I'm not doing like acting the way I'm supposed to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure. And there's also again that these subtle things that happen because when the waiter first approaches their table at the beginning of the scene, he's like, Is this are we waiting for someone else? Because there's an assumption that Shane would have a partner. And then again, he asks for ginger ale, there's no ginger ale, and he asks for a glass of wine. And I think this is really interesting and might come up. He doesn't ask for a glass of wine, he asks for a glass of sparkling water, and his parents are trying to push the wine on him. Right. Okay, yes. Uh yes, because they're like, You can have a glass of wine. He's like, No, I can't. Not during like, and it's part of his like regimented personality and probably a bit of control for him, too.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And the fact that he doesn't, he probably just doesn't like alcohol. Yeah, he just doesn't want to drink he doesn't want to drink the Chablis, David.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah, it's so frustrating how everyone really assumes it's you must like a drink with dinner, and if you don't, that's fucking weird. It's so annoying. No, give me juice. Give me some juicy juice. Yes, please. And so again, Yuna is pushing for like this Swedish princess, you know, and trying to get him to be a little socialized, and and Shane is just not having it, and he's like, Okay, well, I'll tell him I'm coming, uh, and then I'll lie and tell him I'm coming, and then you guys can just go and they won't kick you out. And Yuna's like, well, I I don't want you to lie, like that's not who you are. And we see this look on Shane's face, and it's become who he is just in this facet of his life, but a really big part of it.

SPEAKER_01

And I think it that connects so well with the last episode with Scott and Kip because Kip, like, you know, being with Scott and having to go back in the closet means that he is lying to the people he loves, and that's I don't think they should be mad at him for that. And we see the reaction in episode six with Shane's parents, which I think is handled very well, but like when you are closeted for your own protection in a hetero-patriarchal world that will not treat you the same if they find out who you truly are, you do have to lie, and that sucks. And like, we're always taught that like it's always so bad to lie, and it's like sometimes you have to lie to protect yourself. I think as women, we understand that. Like, how many men have you had to lie to because you couldn't be honest with them? Because, like, well, if I tell this guy straight up that I don't want to be with him, what's he gonna do? How is he gonna react to that? And like, sometimes just the world does force you into these lies, and you know, lying for protection is necessary. And that's what Shane has been doing. But to hear his mom say that, I think he feels really bad about it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, again, I think yeah, I think he feels very backed into a corner at this point. It's like everyone's gonna start smelling that I'm hiding a gay love affair and I've gotta do something. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, are we ready to talk about the woman of the hour? Oh my god, Rosie Posey. It's time to talk about Rose!

SPEAKER_00

Sophie Nelise, the Jennifer Lawrence of this world, if you will. Yes, I will say props to this actress because the only other thing I've seen her in is yellow jackets, and oh boy, is that a very different character.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, absolutely, and she does such a good job. Like, I fully buy her as Rose Landry.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, there is just I I totally do too. There's this lightheartedness to her. There is a Jennifer Lawrence type vibe. I I I get a little eye roll with the like, I've got three brothers from Michigan, and I've I love I'm one of the I'm a girl with brothers and I'm up with the sports. Like, alright, we get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Very, yeah, that's that's very, very much so. But like she's still a full person, it feels like. I like that she has like a take control attitude that I think Shane appreciates in a partner. I think, I mean, Rose Landry, Ilya Rosanov, like both kind of blonde.

SPEAKER_00

Another flower, can you believe it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's like we, you know, we see what's happening. And I think like when they first meet and she's like, Don't you want these fries? Like, here, take some fries. Like, she's like kind of like, you know, taking control. Like there's like a dominance to her that I think Shane really appreciates. And he just loves queening out with her so much he mistakes it for attraction.

SPEAKER_00

Right, because it is, I think it's a good personality match as friends, but yeah, he's a fan of her. It's someone that, you know, and they have enough in common. And I also like the subtle this line of your winter doesn't scare me. Cause maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I also feel like it's like your truth isn't going to scare me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's a beautiful read on that. I also want to talk about the fact that Shane ends up getting with an actor, and this whole episode is people like telling him like you're not acting the right way.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, so true. He really is putting on a performance here.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. He's per putting on the performance of the like straight boyfriend.

SPEAKER_00

He's got top billing casting going on over here. But yeah, no, so then he get of course it's immediately all over media. And I don't obviously Shane did not have this plan in mind, but it's like, okay, you want me to act away here, world? I've got a girlfriend.

SPEAKER_01

And I think I think the show could have done a better job of showing us that Ilya is a ladies' man. I think for if you're a book reader, you know this, and like I kind of found out later. And with episode six with David saying, You're such a ladies man, like I think he's seen a lot with women out in public. Like the tabloids see him out with women. He's a party boy, he's a playboy, whatever. But like Shane is more private, and so for him to be like in your face and so in your face that even Ilya sees it.

SPEAKER_00

Dude, and I love the bit where they're showing him and the other team players like giving him all the hot goss.

SPEAKER_01

And I do want to mention one of the actors, I actually don't know the character's name, um, but like the the shorter guy who shows him the phone is like Rose Fucking Landry. Yeah. Um, that's Harrison Brown. He is a trans hockey player, and I want to talk about him a little bit at the end of the episode because I want to highlight that. Yes, definitely love that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

It's so funny because Shane isn't interested in making Ilya jealous or having girlfriends, really. But like the way that Ilya has been like, you should get a girlfriend and blah blah blah. But you know he can't handle it. No, he can't fucking handle seeing Shane with someone else.

SPEAKER_01

He hates this. The look on his face, again, Connor's story, your performance is excellent. You can see how he's just like, what the fuck? What is happening? I don't like this at all. It's like it's very similar to like anytime Ilya brings up Svetlana to Shane, and Shane gets Hudson gets that look in his face of just like, I'll kill a bitch. I will light this house on fire.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, yeah. And I think it's easy for Ilya to feel like, oh, whatever, when Shane's never with anybody. So yeah, so Shane is dating Rose, and we get Shane in the locker room right before they're about to play Boston, and he a text goes off, and you know he thinks it's gonna be Ilya because that's been their routine, and he's probably looking forward to hearing from him and maybe like, Do you like the new girlfriend I got? Fresh out of the store. But it's not, it's just Rose.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I want to talk about that moment because I have a different read on it, and I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know. We rewatched it last night uh to freshen our memories of the episode, and then we kind of were had different uh readings of it where I was assuming Shane was ready to, he's like, Okay, I have my cover girlfriend now. You're in in Montreal, let's have our little I think he was expecting for Ilya to text him and and set up a hookup, and I think he would have done that.

SPEAKER_01

I disagree. I think Shane would have seen that as cheating on Rose, and I don't think he would have felt comfortable with that. I think he is truly, like he says to Yuna, I think he truly is trying to be straight. I think he, I think the thing with Ilya freaked him out. I think I think he I think he was so used to Ilya texting him before they had a game together that his excitement when he reaches for his phone was just like automatic, was just like what he was used to. And I think he was disappointed that it was Rose. I think it kind of like for a second he was like, Oh yeah, that's right, Ilya and I are gonna fuck after this. And he was like, Oh yeah, Ilya and I aren't talking. I'm dating this this wonderful woman who I'm really not attracted to, and I don't think he's admitted that to himself. And then I think that's why he then goes and looks at his text with Ilya or with Lily. And I think there is just like a sadness there. He's like, Well, I can't have this, but I'm trying to be straight. I'm trying to drink the beer at the bar, I'm trying to drink the wine, I'm trying to stay away from ginger ale.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yes. Ilya is ginger ale.

SPEAKER_01

It's so, and it's I just think it's really sad. And I think it's sad for Rose. Like she's really into Shane. Yeah, and thankfully this doesn't drag on for too long. No, we'll talk about it a lot in episode five.

SPEAKER_00

And then on the game, on the ice, it seems like they really avoided each other because we of course we cut right to the end of the game because who gives a fuck about hockey? And the reporters are like, where was Shane? More important, where was Ilya? Like, they it was a very nothing game because they it's very much a thing in this too, where like your your love life is directly tied to how well you play in hockey. So because they're on the outs, like it was just kind of a nothing burger of a game.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think Montreal wins one to zero, what which is like nothing. Um, but we saw with those texts with Rose that Rose is inviting him out with her and Miles, and I think some of their other like friends from the X-Squad movies, which God, I love that. Um, but so and you know, it's just like so. We know that Shane is gonna be going out with Rose, and then we get that fucking scene with Ilya in that bathroom mirror, and Connor's story staring at himself.

SPEAKER_00

That shot and the lighting in that is so intense, it felt like a different program for a second. It feels that's it, that's actually a person who just committed murder.

SPEAKER_01

Right. Um, it's so good. I also want to mention that like he's in the bathroom and we see the shower behind him is the kind with a bar and with a curtain, not a glass door, which we will talk about at the end of the episode. Um, and then then we get um he goes to Harrison Brown's character and says, like, who just wants to order room service and stay in bed? And then Ilya, his captain, is like, we're going out, tell people.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, and he puts on his most Russian shirt I've ever seen in my life. The fucking tiger ass shit. And they, of course, end up at the same club.

SPEAKER_01

And I just want to talk about the filmmaking for a second because we get Ilya walking into this. Club with bisexual lighting and all the things she said by uh tattoo, right? That's the name of the man by tattoo is playing, and then we transition to we see Rose and like it's a close-up on her, and she's like, Hey, and then we see it's Shane, and it's like, oh my god, they're at the same club. They're at the same club. Um, yeah, and then we just get we get them talking to each other, we get Miles, who we have to talk about Miles.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm so confused about who Miles is to Rose, and like Oh, they're co-stars, I think. They're co-stars? I believe so, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, I wasn't sure if she was like, if he was part of just her entourage, like a friend.

SPEAKER_01

Like I was kind of unclear about that. I think they're co-stars. And here's why I think that is because when Miles goes up to the bar to get them drinks and Ilya is at the bar with his friends, and he's getting a drink. Miles looks at him and is like clocking him, and he's like, You fucked a man, I'd fuck you. Um, but Ilya recognizes Miles, and so he knows he's connected to Rose, and then he's like, Oh, if Rose is here, is Shane here? And that's when he turns and does the Terminator scan of the crowd.

SPEAKER_00

Scanning the crowd, and and then Shane at the same time, he spots Ilya's other players that are in the club, and they find each other in the crowd. They find each other in the crowd, and then we get the dancing scene. And let me tell you, I think a lot of not literal things are happening in the sequence and one of them I want to say we have Shane dancing between Rose, and Miles is behind him, and he starts to kiss his neck. And I feel like that's a representation of like Shane's truth is like a shadow behind him.

SPEAKER_01

And I would bet that that wasn't even he Miles wasn't even actually that close to him because Miles does show some interest. He's like, Shane, he's like, Oh, I'd I'd dance with you. Like, but I do wonder if like that's more just like what Shane is feeling rather than what's actually happening.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, because would that not be odd for you to just start kissing up on someone?

SPEAKER_01

I honestly when that first started happening, I was like, are Rose and Miles trying to get Shane into a threesome right now? That's what it's kind of giving, if that's literally what's happening. Which is kind of funny because earlier it and in the tuna meld scene when Ilya is talking about Svetlana and how she thinks Shane is hot. I was like, does Ilya want to do a threesome with Svetlana and Shane? Let's get some three furs going on. Let's do it. Come on. I actually don't think Khalanov uh can share. They seem pretty monogamous. Yeah, absolutely, which is totally fine. I also just want to say the actor who plays Miles is Devante Sr. Nice. Um, and I do, you know, we get him for such a small amount of time, but like I he's he's doing what he needs to do. Yeah. He's hot. If I were a gay man, I'd want him kissing up on me.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Well, and then and with more of the like, I don't know how much this is literally happening because Shane breaks away and then goes to just like stare at Ilya while he's dancing up on a girl, sticking his entire tongue in her ear. And then like there's just shots of them just kind of like staring at each other.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and so we're getting so I think what is I think what actually happens is I think Shane is like, I have to go to the bathroom, like I'm freaking out. And I think he probably does pass by and like glimpse Ilya and this girl dancing, and then he probably keeps going. But I think we stay in that moment because then we start to transition, we start to cut between Shane and Ilya staring at each other and Shane going home with Rose, taking her home.

SPEAKER_00

Looking like he's being led to the gallows. Meanwhile, her cute little ass is just going up the stairs, and anyone would be excited to follow it except a gay man. Do we think that was a body double? I don't know, it could have been.

SPEAKER_01

Could have been, yeah, I could see that. Um, but anyways, and Rose is like leading Shane up the stairs and trying to be all sexy, and it's contrasts so deeply with that first scene in the montage. Whenever we get them like, like Shane is dragging Ilya up the stairs. He's so excited. Whereas, like you said, it looks like he is just not, he's like, go. And yeah, I think mentally he's still on that club. He is, and and so then yeah, we see, and then they're they're like, uh, like it's Shane is literally thinking about Ilya. He's thinking about Ilya dancing up on this woman, and like, what if that was me dancing with Ilya? And then he transitions to thinking about Ilya in his shower. I think he's thinking about Ilya in Shane's shower.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, because this was another thing where I think people thought that that was actually happening. And and and Ilya was thinking about Shane while jerking off in the shower, but no, I think you're right, it's just Shane picturing Ilya in that shower they shared together, locking eyes with him as he jerks off, and then all the things she said.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Oh, it's all the things he said, because at this point they've transitioned to the other version of the song, which is so good. Very subtle, too. And I think that transition maybe is what keys us into like, okay, this is no longer the real moment that was happening. This is now the extended moment in Shane's mind that he's using to help him get off with Rose because he's not attracted to her, he's not attracted to any woman. He has to think of Ilya. It's just so see, kids, when you lie to yourselves, you only hurt yourself and the people around you.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And again, I this is why I don't think Shane was like planning to fuck Ilya after their game. I think Shane really like wants to make this work with Rose. And I think this is him realizing it can't work, it like it isn't working the way it's supposed to. And I I think we see in episode five, I think he continues to try to convince himself. He's like, no, no, no, it's not that I'm gonna, it's just that the season has been really tough. Like, no, no, no, no. Like he really is just lying to himself and lying to Rose. Well, this will be an interesting, maybe the book will clarify this for us. Yes, I'm very excited for that, and I'm really excited to get to the next episode. Yeah. I can't wait to talk more about Rose.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I love the beginning of the next episode because it really is. I know people were like, oh god, now there's a girl. Listen, there's two episodes left. We're gonna get rid of her real fast. But in the bet, like I do, I love the way that that whole thing ends.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's very like Rose as a character is very respected, I think, by the narrative, and I appreciate that. And she was kind of our she was our woman of the day. I don't think we had as much to talk about her in the way that we've had to talk about the other women, like in that section. In a way, I will probably have even more to say next week. Yeah, I think as spoilers for next week, I think Rose and Svetlana can share woman of the day, and we can talk about they have like a dual role. And I also want to talk about how the fans ship them and fun stuff like that. But before we go, I just wanted to talk I again I wanted to talk about Harrison Brown. And I will share, I think it was a TikTok I found and I'll repost it for people where it was Harrison Brown talking about the opportunity to be in heated rivalry and like being because he played in the women's league. Um, I think even after he transitioned, potentially, or like while he was transitioning, and I think he was very much accepted by his players. Again, I'll share this so that he you can hear it from his own mouth. But he talks about the experience of after he'd transitioned, trying to like play in men's hockey and how that didn't feel like a safe environment anymore, and how being on this show like it was a safer moment, and he's still trying to find that way into hockey. Um, and there's lots of big conversations happening about trans sports, right? Trans people in sports, which is just fucking ridiculous. Like, I think all sports should be co-ed anyway. Um, I think the gender stuff of it, I think it's like it's it's a ridiculous conversation. But I did want to share a resource, an article from the National Women's Law Center, and it's called For Once and For All, This Is Why We Support Trans Women and Girls in Sports. Um, that really kind of like breaks down the lies about trans women in sports. But I think also centers like women, like trans women in sports and ignores trans men in sports, which is something that happens all the time. So actually, I'm gonna find another resource to go along with this that talks about like trans men's experience in sports because I think so often the conversation is on trans women and trans men get erased from the cards.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's that's a deep pool of discourse. I'm not sure if I even want to start touching my toe in, but it does seem like we're always obsessed, even with the buy discourse. It's always about it's always about what what are the women doing? What are the trans women doing? And what's the what's the definition of women? And it's always about like how can we control what the women are doing? Yes. But then with the men, you know, it's it's different.

SPEAKER_01

It's yeah, it's a it's a big conversation. It's you know, into cis women talking about it. I think we're not exactly the people to be leading that conversation, but it is definitely something we should all be um reflecting on and learning about and like looking for people who can share their experiences and try to learn from them and just be respectful of all people.

SPEAKER_00

And it brings me back to um another, we were doing your school project about like why people have this vitriol and fear and hatred of transness. And it really, I think a lot of it is because it really pushes back on fundamental beliefs for a lot of people, especially like just these things of like girls and boys are in separate lines in school and we go to separate bathrooms and we have separate sports, and it's like that that's automatically seen as the correct way of doing things, but maybe it's not okay.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think that's just about everything for this episode. Yeah. Okay, I have one thing I want to say. I'm gonna repost these on TikTok, but there are two songs from a creator on TikTok called All of Songs 11. Um, and they like, I guess they write a song every day, and they wrote two songs based off of this episode of Heated Rivalry, and I think they are so good, and I think they perfectly encapsulate Shane and Ilya's like feelings and what's happening in this episode. So I will repost those. I listen to them all the time. If that creator ever wants to put them on title, cubas, Spotify, whatever, I will download. Um, I would pay for those songs on SoundCloud if you put them on there. But yeah, I think that's just about it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Well, gosh, it's so angsty. All those things she said. This is not enough.

unknown

Whoosh, I'm gonna go.