Episode 7: the books that started it all

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This week on Sex Sells, em and rainbow discuss the books that inspired the show. Thank you Rachel!!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hi everyone, I'm Rainbow They She. And I'm Em, and this is Sex Cells, a Heated Rivalry podcast. Today we're going from page to screen, talking about books one and two, game changer, and of course, Heated Rivalry.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Uh, written by Rachel Reed. Thanks, Rach. I almost said written and directed, which I is not right, but also kind of right. I mean, is the writer of a novel not both the writer and director? They've got the vision.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

And they're putting it into my brain. Directly in there. Gosh, it's been a while since I've read a book.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Not so much for you. No, I'm I read all the time. Um, you know, it's interesting you say that one of um my favorite podcasts is That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. Uh-huh. And one of the hosts, Lisa Traeger, who like her family is from Russia. She's Russian. And she, I just knew when Heated Rivalry came out that once it hit her, it was gonna hit real hard. She's like a hyperfixator. And it did, and I was so excited. I remember like listen, because they always do like chit-chat at the top of their episodes. And so she was like, I started watching Heated Rivalry. I paused, I like came to the bedroom and I was like, Lisa started watching heated rivalry. And it's like it she really like she read all of the books and she like continued reading. And I just thought that was so great. Like, I I love that because Lisa beforehand was not a reader. She like did she used to like have she had a joke in her stand-up of like when you watch reality TV as much as I do, watching succession feels like you're reading, um, which is one of my favorite jokes of hers. But she really started reading because of heated rivalry, and she introduced she like recommended a few books on the pod that like I read afterwards because she's like, really, she's like, I want the gay books, and I'm like, Yeah, you do. Yeah, it's fun. But yeah, um, we I don't know how long this episode's gonna end up being, but I think we can talk about our overall thoughts on like the adaptation aspect of this, and then we'll talk about each of the books and differences we saw, things we liked, things we're glad were changed, that sort of thing. Yes. And then at the end of this episode, because this is our last episode until we go on hiatus.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yes, I can't believe it's already over, you guys. Last podcast we did, we covered a show that had several seasons out, and it took us two years. This taking us about six weeks is blowing me.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

It's I'm like not prepared for this to be over. Um, also, uh uh just a couple things we had to skip a week um because we had a friend in town. We needed time to read the books, there were things going on. Also, I have to say, in the last episode, I mispronounced the actor who plays Scott. I called him Francis. His name is Francois. Um, and it really I listened, I in the rough cut and in the posted episode when I heard it, I just cringed.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I was like, his name is not Francis, and I know that. He's never gonna come on the podcast now. Never, we'll never get to speak to Francois. So are we starting talking about heated rivalry then? Or are we talking about Game Changer?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

I want to talk about I just wanna like, I just wanna get your overall thoughts on like like, do you think having read the books now and seen the show, how do you feel about like the way these two books were adapted into one TV show?

SPEAKER_01 3:11

I'll start with Heated Rivalry first. Um, I think it was it's a fantastic adaptation. And I don't know if I'd feel too differently if I read the book first. I kind of like experiencing the show first. I will say I like the show better.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Yes, I think up top, I think we can say that. And not to say that the books are bad.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

It's just that I think the show elevated the story.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I think it took what it the material and really I just they did a really nice job. It's very faithful to the books, while like obviously moving some timeline things around and change and I think they made a lot of positive changes, namely like the female characters. I was really shocked at how little Svitlana was actually in the book. I and and I can't believe, Rachel, you're making me compliment a man for this. But he really like made the female characters much more three-dimensional, all of them, really. So that was a big glaring difference. Ilya is very different. I didn't realize how like masculine he was in the books. I don't know if that's quite the right word. Like Butch, like you know, he sounds more like he would look like Marlowe in the show. Yes, absolutely. But I love this version of Ilya. I still think it absolutely works.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

I think they picked the right actor to play Ilya, and I think what's so good about the adaptation of Heated Rivalry is that like I think Jacob was very focused on how am I going to bring the emotion from these books to the screen, and I think he cast with that in mind.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And you can really see that, or not just Jacob, but also the casting director, like everyone who's involved with casting, I think that seemed to be their focus. Okay, I think we're ready to talk about Game Changer.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yeah, we'll we'll really break this one down because that is obviously a very different type of adaptation because we're taking a whole book, which I believe is longer than Heated Rivalry and putting it into one episode. Which I think they did well. Yes. Um, but obviously there's so much more that happens in the book, so we're gonna get into it.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, and I mean, first and foremost, because of the the nature of this podcast, so many more sex scenes.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

This book was really smutty. I feel like it was smuttier than heated rivalry.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Something would happen, sex scene. Something would happen, sex scenes. Like there was a sex scene every other scene to the point where I was truly just skimming it. So I could get through the book. I think what is hard for me sometimes with these books, like, I know it's a lot of like, especially straight women, it's their first like foray into smut. So I'm happy for them. But me, it's like I think I'm so used to reading fanfic about characters that I already care about and have attributed personality and things to. Whereas with these guys, I don't I don't know if I ever really came to care about them too much.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

No, I think that's fair, and I think that's part of for me. I I view that through the lens of my demisexuality, where like the emotional connection is such an important part of the sexual experience. And so for me, I think that's another reason I really enjoy reading fanfiction as well. Is like just like you said, you feel like you have a connection to these characters, and so it is like easier to read about them, you know, getting hot and heavy.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

I feel like these books really, yeah, it is just it is a lot of smut. And I can see like the criticism there. I don't think there's anything wrong with smut, but I think I was like, I don't know, I don't know what I want to say here.

SPEAKER_00 6:24

Well, I mean, it's it is porn with plot. I will say that. Like there's plot to the book, there's heart to the book, there is like a story that's happening. There's just also a lot of sex scenes happening too. And I feel like for at least for Game Changer, and and I have read quite a few other like smuddy romance books, and I'm not against them. I mean, I read them, I enjoy them, but they are a little bit like they don't stay with me as long, and I don't feel as emotionally connected to them afterwards. I'm not like, oh my gosh, like that. I'm gonna be thinking about this book for days now. It's more like, well, that was a lovely experience. I enjoyed reading that.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Yeah, I think I think the characters in the story aren't super strong for me. I think it's a very, it's a sweet story, it's a very slice of life, very coffee shop AU type of of story. I don't mean to like shit on it right out of the gate. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

I think it would be interesting if this were like a ship you really enjoyed. I was thinking about put into this story, like what would that be like?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

And I mean, who in Haiku? Scott and Kip. I know.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Well, and I, you know, we get way more of we get much more of Kip. Well, really of both of them, but we get to really see inside Kip's psyche. And there's this whole dynamic of like Kip feeling very inferior to Scott that I don't think we got as clearly because the it was one episode that had a very distinct purpose. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yeah, I would say I think like we get, and I think it's a little bit more tell than show in the TV show because we get that, like, I can't believe you're even into me from Kip. And like that is just a line he says in the show, and I feel like that doesn't really build on that as much. I think there's a little bit at the beginning of like he couldn't possibly be flirting with me, kind of thing. But in the book, we really get, and it's not just an inferiority of like, oh, like you're like this like hot, famous hockey player. It's also about like the money aspect. Like, Scott is trying to like sugar daddy Kip and he's like, please let me pay for things.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Dude, I have I have things to say about Kip's attitude with the money. Yeah, I think that is something that gets totally left out of the show. Is Kip Kip already has very low self-esteem about where he's at in in life? He's 25, he's still living with his parents in Bay Ridge, he um is working a smoothie job, you know, he doesn't have a lot of self-confidence already. And then throughout the course of their relationship, there is obviously an imbalance where Scott is this big movie star with millions of dollars, but I think Kip also contributes to the imbalance because he values himself much lower than Scott does. Yes. And so he almost I think makes it worse than it has to be. I totally agree. Also, Scott is not a movie star. Um did I say movie star? You sure did. Well, you know what? They fucking act like it in the book, and I'm almost like, are hockey stars this really this famous? I'm so not in the hockey world. I'm sure they are in their world.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, I think if you're like a sports person, yeah, yeah, I think it must be. Um, I and I don't know, maybe that is like more because this book takes place in New York, but you know, Rachel Reedas from Nova Scotia lives in Canada. And maybe that is something that you see more in Canada that she's like putting into like New York City. Because I feel like in the United States it's more like football and basketball.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

I should talk to my cousin who loves hockey, and he's from New York. I'm a New York girl, so this was kind of a fun book to read, especially I also I was born in the city, but I grew up in Rochester, so it was a lot of like things that I could relate to. I yeah, I loved the the Scott from Rochester, but I was like, oh poor Scott, how do you grow up in fuck ass Rochester? But it was also like when like Rachel was trying to describe Kip's Brooklyn drawl. Oh picturing like, hey sweetheart.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yeah, it was a little, it was a little, I was like trying, I was having a hard time like figuring out. I was like, what do you think Brooklyn accents sound like? Um I do love that we get that he he and his parents live in Brooklyn. I kind of thought from the TV show, I think we speculated maybe Queens.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

Well, it's very suburban looking, so it could be several places. Yeah, yeah, it could even be in Jersey. Um, but yeah, it's Bay Ridge. And and I like Book Kip a lot more. I just think because we just get more of him. And I also understand his plight more in the show. Cause like, I before I get into this, I want to say I understand Kip is a social person, and that was a big part of his plight, and he should be allowed to live how he wants to live, but you would not catch me complaining about being some rich person's pet up in their penthouse. But also, I know I'm a homebody and that would work better for me. It's like I'll be your little fuck toy secret for a few years. And he like, Scott tries to pay off his student loans and he refuses. And I I really don't think I understand the pride, but I also feel like fuck it, life is not fair. Like, take the money. That doesn't make you less than.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, I think I think it goes back to that inferiority thing. And I think a big difference between the book and the episode is that in the episode, Skip is already applying for his master's degree and just like hoping that he gets it. And I was a little surprised. Like he has a history degree, like a bachelor's degree, but he doesn't even really think about getting his master's till later in the book. It's not really until he like realizes how inferior he feels because of his job and like his lack of like a career in the field he's interested in. And so I think that kind of plays into it as well of just like, no, I don't want you, I don't want it to feel like you're like taking care of me. I was also confused. I was like, take the fucking money, bro, pay off your student loans. Like, I know, like, kill the capitalist in your mind.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Well, Kip's inner thoughts are just dripping with self-loathing. It's always like he's waiting for Scott to realize how worthless he is. Guys, if you're in your mid-20s and don't have it figured out yet, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

It's actually okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

It's the your 20s are your time to be figuring it out. And I think even if you haven't gotten it figured out by by your 30s, by like when like everyone's on their own timeline. And like we all in this like shitty capitalist world have to figure out how to survive. And like, if you are surviving, like you're doing what you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:16

And you know what? I I do respect that Kip wants to have his own life, stand on his own. I totally respect that. I think that's a good trait to have, but also like let daddy take care of you. He loves you.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, yeah. Like, I just I would I would have taken the money, but that's also we're also saying that from like 2026, this book was written in 2019. Like it was it was only like seven years ago, but it was like a different time. It no, it was, and life has gotten a lot more dire. And yeah. And I do think, I think going back to like Hipp's like resentment that he starts feeling towards Scott, I think it does make sense because it's not just that he's like staying at Scott's apartment all the time, it's that like they he literally can't go out with him at all. Like he can't be seen in public with him.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And and there are so many times where like he thinks they're gonna get a normal date or something, and then you know, he's reminded that no Scott's really very terrified for him to be known. And it it really makes him feel like shit, I think, to be kept a secret like this.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Yeah, and I think that's something that's interesting about this is like Scott, first of all, is blonde.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Um Scott, I you know what? I was I was shitting on Kip's casting. I'm gonna shit on Scott's casting too a little bit. I mean, I think they're both again, both fine actors. Scott really gives me more of that Captain America, like good boy, blonde, cleft chin type of thing. Whereas Francois was much more like rugged feeling to me. I mean, great, but like it wasn't really what Scott was giving in the book.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

Yeah, again, I do feel like the the Skip stuff, like everything having to do with Skip, took a backseat to Hollandov, which makes sense because like ultimately the show is their story, and Scott and Kip are like a a part of that, but they're not the main focus. So I understand like why. Yeah, and I think also I feel like Scott's younger, or like it gives to me, I feel like Scott is like a younger hockey player in the book, whereas he's older in the show.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, I don't know if they explicitly state his age, but I agree with that. Yeah. Speaking of Rosinoff, too, it was really fun reading this book because you watch the show and you know Ilya is always ragging on Scott and bringing him up, but you learn in the book that Rosinoff comes up a couple times too. People thought that because Scott comes out to like his closest friends in the hockey world, and they one of them thinks it's Rosanoff, like he comes up a lot on the other side too, and it just feels like Rachel is begging us to write some three-way fanfic where we mix up these characters, and maybe uh you've been heard.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yes, absolutely. Um, no, I do love that Rosinoff shows. I know, and from my understanding, he shows up in all of the books. Like Ilya is like that's clearly her favorite, and and I understand why. He he's he's my favorite too.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

I like that he comes at the end, you know, they go to the gay bar and he comes. It's really nice. It's cool to get that scene because we hear about Ilya going up to him and approaching him, but to to see it is very cool or to read it. Um, yeah, absolutely. And yeah, there are some differences. Like Kip has both his parents.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Yeah, yeah, Kip has both of his parents, and I'd say they take like a little bit more of a backseat. Yeah. Um, a bit like I think Kip's dad has that like conversation with him where he's like, I know you're dating Scott Hunter. Um, and like respecting his privacy and stuff. I I like that. And then when when Scott just shows up for dinner, oh my god, what a risky move. Oh my god, yeah, and the mom just being like, oh my god, Scott Hunter.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Oh, and there is also, sorry, I'm kind of jumping around, I'm just thinking of things. Um, there was a whole Zulu storyline that never made it into the show. Zullo, what is his name? The bad hockey player that gets.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Oh, Zulo, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

Yeah, so there's a hockey player who I mean, honestly, he doesn't actually cause that much conflict. Like, I thought maybe he'd get into a homophobic fight with Scott, but he's just like a really rowdy player that gets arrested. So there's more like Scott hockey drama as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

There's also just more hockey. Much more. I in in all of the books that I've read. So I've read because I've read the first three now, I've read Tough Guy as well. Um, I'm skimming through that hockey baby. I'm like hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey, and no more hockey, okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

If they like blended more, like especially I think this would work better in Heated Rivalry, obviously, than Game Changer. But if you could blend the sport with the homo eroticism more, like they do in Haiku, yeah, I think it'd be really strong.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, but I think it it's it's very clear that Rachel Reed is a hockey fan and knows a lot about hockey, and like that's part of it. But yeah, I think the the blend, I think that's one of the reasons I love Haiku so much is that we're learning about the sport, but it's through the character's emotions.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, like Rachel, you could have gotten me to care about hockey if you really wanted to. This it is like it's like smut 101 these books, and I'm in class 400.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, yeah. I'm actually I'm I'm I'm at the dis I'm doing my dissertation right now. Like I've read these types of scenes since I was 14 years old. Yeah. Yeah, I would say, like, going back to like the fan fiction of it all, like it does feel very much like the very familiar beats of like smuddy fic that you read. Yeah. Um, a few other things I'd like to touch on.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

For this one. I do want to we talked about Kip's family differences, but also Scott, we learned like he doesn't have, you know, in the in the show, it's like, oh, he had two parents and they both died. But we really learned that he came from like a family with like a low income.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Who's a single mom, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yeah, yeah. I had a single mom who died when he was a teen. And so, like, I think that's why for him, like, he like doesn't feel he doesn't understand why Kip doesn't want to accept the money. Yeah. Because he's like, I mean, when I was a kid, I like when I was young, I would have like I understand what it's like to struggle, and I don't want you to have to feel that way. And Kip's just like, no, I can take care of myself. And I think there is a certain like he wants to be, he doesn't want to be dependent on Scott.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Yeah, he wants to feel equal to his partner.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

Yeah, exactly. And he doesn't realize that Scott looks at him and sees the sun.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Um, which uh which I mean Scott's such a like a good boy TM.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

I've also really enjoyed like picturing my own version of Kip. It's a much more like like slouchy, uh, messy black hair, like hot Brooklyn boy type of vibe than like because Kip show Kip gives me like good little golden retriever vibes in a way. Like I y'all know how I feel about it. But I see that. I see that. Um because Kip is is sex like confident and sexy and flirty, much more than like, and Scott is really the more I think awkward one. Obviously, he has way less experience. Yeah. And I don't know if that didn't really come through in the show. Again, show was very limited and had a very specific purpose, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Well, it's interesting because we had talked, I think, on the episode uh for episode three where we talked about Scott and like does he have any experience? And the book reveals that like he has very limited experience because he's like gone like on vacation to like secluded locations and like brought like gone back to people's hotel rooms and stuff like that. And that is like scary to think about. And like you have you know, that could be a very scary situation to put yourself in, um, not just for like like like physical safety, not just like your reputation. Uh, do we want to talk about the the women of of this book, Elena and Maria and their differences?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

I will say I think Elena pretty good, both in show and book. I think I would have loved even more of her. Yeah. And Maria was adorable. We obviously get more of her in the book, not too much more, but we get to see she's just like this silly, kind of jokey, cute girl. But the copaganda that just came out of fucking nowhere and smacked me. What the hell was that?

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I was so I was like, what about Maria's personality or anything we learned about her in this book made you think? It's like it's very clear that this book was written like post-like Black Lives Matter, but like pre-2020 George Floyd protest, because like I think we were in a spot where like white people in particular when it came to policing were still under the assumption that police in the book they say we need more good cops. Exactly. Like they like we like and some people still think this, and it's incorrect that like the police are an inherently good institution that we need to keep society going, and like it is just there's it's like the bad apples thing. Like, there are bad corrupt cops out there, but if we get them out and we get good cops in and it's like no, the whole institution is rotted, get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, it was just really random. Kip is asking her what because she's gonna quit the smoothie shop, and then she's considering the police academy.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

She also goes to work for Starbucks.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Oh, there's a lot of Starbucks mentions in these books. I wonder if there's some sort of deal or something.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah, I don't know. I don't really know how all of it.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

It felt like an ad a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, well, they're union busters, so. But yeah, so that was a bit of a turnoff. I was like, okay, let's let's just pick ourselves up after that one, folks.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Yeah, and then Elena being like a cybersecurity person is interesting, which like it's hard because, like, you know, we're living with like techno fascists trying to take over our country.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Again, in 2019, this wasn't as prevalent as an issue as it is now.

SPEAKER_00 20:59

And I think she is trying to like in the the company she works for is like run by like a female CEO, I think. And I think it's like it's almost giving like girl boss. It is very much, it's very girl boss, which like in in the show we didn't even know what Alina Elena did, and we didn't need to. No, we just need to know that she has uh a company that has good hockey seats and and and um goes to Gallus. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Um, also Kip kind of low-key cheats on Scott and it's never discussed. It's very it's the kiss. Oh yeah, remember?

SPEAKER_00 21:30

Oh my god, yes, that's right, that's right. They kiss, and then skip uh Kip is immediately like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Yeah, they only kiss for a moment, but I was kind of surprised that he never told Scott about that. Yeah, that is. It's like I like, do you need to tell? And was that when they were like not talking? It was when they were not talking, but I feel like that's so weird because it's not like they were like, we're not together. So I feel like it still constitutes I I would have told you, is all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah, I definitely would have I would have said something and like, yeah, yeah, that is interesting. It's like the it's part of like the messiness that comes with like these kinds of like romance stories. And I don't hold this against Kip.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

I guess you could make an argument of like we were on a break. But I just noticed it and was a little like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. Um, yeah, and then we also get I liked getting to see like how Scott made the decision to come out. And I like oh, also we have to talk about the timeline because this book takes place within like the span of a few months, and there is no three-year gap between we're not between I can't do this anymore and kiss on the ice.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

No, it's really nice to watch Scott's journey because it it's very relatable again. When you haven't told anyone this thing about you, and it seems like such a big mountain in your head of like, there's no way I could possibly do this, but then he he tells his three friends first, and like it's like after that, it's like the dam breaks, and he's like, Okay, I didn't die, no one died, they're still my friends. Now I want to fucking tell everybody. Yeah. Because like as soon as you realize the world won't end, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

I also thought it was interesting that Vaughn Carter, um, Scott's like best friend, was dating an actress. Yeah. And it's interesting because in heated rivalry in episode four, Rose, the commentators, like when Rose is at Shane's game, like they say something like, Oh, what's up with like hockey players and actresses dating? And I didn't really get what that meant. And maybe there was something like that was happening in the real real real world. Um rules.

SPEAKER_01 23:27

Do they say hockey players or is it just like athletes?

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Maybe just athletes. Yeah. Um, but I wondered if that was like a um a nod. Like a nod to that to Carter's relationship with the actress whose name I don't remember. It's fine. It's fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Um, also Elena like said tells Kip uh a young, uh semi-famous actor that she slept with, and my mind was like Timothy Chalabet. I think maybe too young in 2019 for that to be. I don't know how old is he? I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah, I mean, and Elena, I like Elena. I like Elena kind of has like, she seems like she's got like a solo poly vibe going on, which I like. She is like canonically straight in the book. I can still headcanon her as a lesbian in the TV show. Um, if I want to. Yeah, is there anything else we want to talk about with Game Changer?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

No, I think that's it. It's a it's a very much a beach read, by the pool read, easy read. Uh if you want to read some smut. Yeah, I think enjoyable.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

I'm ready to move on to to heated rivalry, baby. Heated rivalry. Oh my god, with the prologue that starts with them fucking in the apartment complex that Shane bought.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Dude, because I think in the show it's just he had bought like his room and then the room next to it, but in the book it's the whole fucking building.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Yeah, so in the show, he has his apartment and he bought the one next door. And I think that's supposed to give us an idea of like, oh, the like landlord thing, which fuck landlords. I hate that Hollander is a landlord. Um, but no, in the book he buys a separate apartment building that isn't where he lives. Because I then you mentioned this very early on when you were read it reading Heated Rivalry that Shane's shame about his identity and about what he and Ilya are doing is so prevalent. Yes. And is really like the like what his guiding principle is like I am ashamed of this. Yeah. Um, and I thought that was very interesting. So yeah, he bought the apartment building, and that's and that was something I thought was interesting. Ilya never goes to his apartment in Montreal in the book, he only sees his bedroom in the cottage. Um, and I thought that was like an interesting like narrative device of like Shane refusing to let Ilya in fully until he's ready. Um, so I did appreciate that from a narrative perspective. It's also just something that you can do in a book that's harder to do in the show. Yeah. Because it's like, listen, we can we can do Shane's apartment. Well, the book was like, these guys are rich, and I'm gonna show it.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

And the movie was like, we only have so much of a budget.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Yeah, the show was like, we're not rich. I also want to say the the situationship feels like less loving and romantic.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

This was a really interesting like look at the story. Because in the show, we get to watch it from the outside, and maybe it was always that romantic, but like in the book, we're in their heads, and the and especially Shane's head, who is again full of shame, so like anxious about being caught. And yeah, the first half of the book is a lot of smut again, and it's not does not feel super romantic. Shane in the show, I get the impression that Shane is pretty much a virgin, but in the book, like he does he he'll sleep with guys like I think once or twice, and then he's he's had girlfriends, like he tries more to be dating and stuff, so little differences like that.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah, it's interesting. They really that like gives us the chance to like see that like he's never really been into women because he talks about like getting blowjobs and like closing his eyes and just like getting through it. Um, but then like when Ilya does it, he's like, I want to watch. I'm so turned on right now.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

No, I think my favorite thing about reading the books was just getting to see their inner dialogue in certain scenes. Like it was really the tuna mount scene was really Shane's realizing that because there's a specific line where he's like, No one makes me feel like Ilya Rosanoff does, which leads to the freak out. And it's like obviously we can guess that that was what was going through his head, but it's nice to see.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Well, it's even like he like that's even a line where he like it's like a dot dot dot, and he's like, no, actually, we're not, I'm not gonna think that. Um, there's a lot of of both of them, I think, doing that where it's just like they almost let themselves go there, but then they really pull back.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Yeah. Um well, and that pressure of the rivalry is really there too. Um, I feel like they, especially at the end, when they're coming after the parents and stuff, he's like, it's well, the gay thing is one thing, but I like they know they're really gonna like fuck with people's minds and think that they're just like these little perverts that have been like squirreled away fucking the whole time. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

And it's like, no, they've been falling in love. Yeah. Um, I also I want to talk about their first time because in the book it's so much less romantic. Yeah. Um, there's like it's like from behind, and it's still like pleasurable. I'm not saying it's not like satisfying for either of them uh or for both of them, but it it it was it was very interesting. I was like, oh, I don't feel the like love like you did, like the show did such a good job. And again, I think it's because it's condensed, because it's it's six episodes, we're changing the timeline just a little bit. Like it's like we really need to show you, like they're staring lovingly into each other's eyes.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah. I just have some like general little no I started to take notes for each chapter, but then I gave up. But I did want to like point some things out. Sure. So I didn't know that the teams themselves had a century-old rivalry that Shane and Ilya were basically personifying, which I wish they had made more clear in the show. Again, the rivalry itself could have been a little bit more in the show, I think.

SPEAKER_00 28:55

Yeah, I feel like there was also like there was more of the like the rivalry coming from Shane and Ilya. Like, not just like they had like a playful rivalry, I think, in the show that they did a good job of of showing us, but like in the book, I feel like we see more of Ilya Rosanov being like, oh, this fucking pretty boy Shane Hollander, like he's so perfect, and then like Shane being like, which I think they did a good job in the first episode of showing Shane feeling inferior to Rosanov in some ways. Um, and I thought that was well done in the show, but I think the book it was just a little bit more consistent.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah. Um, I also just like knowing that Shane becomes pretty obsessed with Ilya the after the first time he beats him and is like googling him and all this stuff. Uh Shane has a girlfriend during the mirror scene, which I think is fun. He thinks about like a girlfriend you're hoping will break up with you. Uh, we also get it confirmed that Shane jerked off after the mirror scene, which obviously, but I love to have it confirmed. Yes. Uh and Ilya was low-key Shane's gay awakening because he starts noticing guys in that way after the mirror scene. Oh, and then another little thing um that I just noticed was in the show, they really used Scott as the background hockey man, whereas in the book it was a lot of other random people. Like the person who noticed the one, two, two, one was not Scott. And there was a couple other times, but it makes sense with how they did it because Scott plays such a role in the show. Um, but I thought that was a nice change. But yeah, and just the romance really takes off for me, I think, in the middle half. I think after they really start to realize their feelings, and then the yearning really kicks in.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah, I would say the first part feels a little bit more like it really does feel like it's more like, oh my god, so scandalous that these two rivals are like fucking each other and they just can't like stop, even though they really want to. Yes, this kind of thing. Because I didn't really get the vibe from the show that they that either of them were like, we have to stop this, we can't do this anymore.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

And speaking of, because there are a couple times, the first time when Shane is like, should we talk? And then when he comes to Illy's house and he says, Should we talk? I think those were attempts to end it.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

In the book, I think he's always like, We should talk because we should end this.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

No, I think you're totally right. I see that. I see that. Yeah, he's like, shouldn't we talk about this? And Ilya's like, No, we should fuck.

SPEAKER_01 31:01

And in that scene where he's kind of awkward and Ilya's like, give me your phone. There's a conversation cut out there where Shane is like, we really shouldn't do this, should we? But they cut that part out. So yeah, they definitely take that out of the show more. Yeah. Which I think the guilt is what makes some of this so yummy.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

Yeah, yeah, that is that is definitely part of it. Um, I also will say we the book does a really good job of showing us, I think, that Ilya is a Playboy. Yes. Oh, and he has a car fascination that again the show I guess could not afford. No, I mean, no, are that they can't show those. They're not gonna they can't get those their hands on. They couldn't even get a Jeep.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Oh, and while we're here, let's talk about Svetlana. Let's talk about Svetlana. Uh in the book, she is just she is Ilya's favorite girl to hook up with. She's she's lives in Boston. They they weren't childhood friends like in the show. They met at a car car dealership. She's also white, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Yeah, yeah. She's like blonde hair.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

She's really Svetlana's just like the side character in the book. And I really love what what the show did with Svetlana, really making her a real important part of Ilya's life.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

And giving Ilya like another person to connect to, because I think that's something in the show that we don't see as much, or in the in the book that we don't see as much. Like Shane has Hayden, he has his best friend, but Ilya doesn't really seem to have any other connections. Like his character, in a way, is like more isolated, which is interesting that he then like shows up in all of the other books as well. Like he does have that conversation with Ryan Price, which was interesting. Um, but he doesn't really have like even like Marlowe really seemed in the show like they were like friends and buds. In the book, I didn't get that as much. Not at all. And so I'm glad that he has in the show somebody he's connected to who can like give us the opportunity to get to know Ilya more. Like, I think we learn about characters through their relationships.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

It feels like the show developed Ilya more in that way because we get so many good scenes with him and Svetlana talking. And then going into his brother, who is Andre in the book, he's a little asshole calling for money, but that's really it. We don't get the whole funeral scene with him and Svetlana, which I think is really good. So I just really feel like the show strengthened things from the book.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Yeah, I also feel like there's more, like, I feel like Ilya mentions like his stepmom wanting money more, which I thought was interesting. And I kind of like that the show was like, we're not gonna do the villainous stepmom trope here. We're gonna have like the asshole homophobic brother, which I think because we talked about a lot, like so much of the show is about like masculinity and patriarchy. And so I think it is important to show how like the men in somebody's life influences them. And maybe I'm just saying that because we watched Moonlight last night. Oh, so good. So good. Oh my god, I had never seen it before. Not because I didn't think I was gonna like it, just I wasn't ready for it, but excellent movie. And I will also say Yuna wasn't really developed. Like Yuna and David were just kind of like they were kind of a set. It was kind of like Kip's parents, where like they're just kind of there.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

And there was no um the Yuna Shane conversation wasn't in the book either.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Well, it felt like it felt like she was like less of a momager in the book. Like it felt like it, I think they really did a good job of like developing these characters because again, I think we learn about characters through their relationships with others. And I think that really informed like Yuna's relationship with Shane in the show, really informed a lot of that anxiety he feels. I also feel like the show like kind of highlighted more that like Shane being like one of the only Asian players in hockey, like what a big deal that was. Um, so I thought that was very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

Yeah. I started to just take pictures of pages, and then of course, now I don't remember why. One thing was the the Vegas rooftop scene in the book, Ilya's much more quiet and sad. Like when he's like, what does it fucking matter? Or oh no, not everything's about you, Shane. He says it very like sadly instead of like snapping at him.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Yeah, I thought that was interesting. There was so much more anger in the show, which I mean that is maybe like more like cinematic.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

Maybe. I mean, I'm not hating on the decision, it's just like I I do like enjoying like, oh, okay, this is what they did differently.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, yeah, I thought that was interesting, and I do kind of like the like sadness. I think maybe they weren't You know what it reminds me of?

SPEAKER_01 35:07

I'm so sorry. When the the book changed from Dumbledore, when he asks Harry Potter if he put his name in the goblet, and he says it calmly in the book, and the movie's like, Did you put your name in the goblet?

SPEAKER_00 35:16

That's because the actor who played Dumbledore for books three through eight or through movies three through eight didn't read the books.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Which I hate that decision. Also, since we brought up Harry Potter, just have to say JK Rowling is a turf. Uh, do not support her monetarily or in any other way because she uses that money to hurt trans people.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Right. I'm sorry we even brought up that franchise baby.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

But I thought it's just it's hard. It's hard. It is, it was like a it's a cultural phenomenon. It just sucks that it is like many cultural phenomenon, um, spearheaded by one of the worst people in the world. Um, but no, I think I totally agree though. It is like that that change. And I think there is something I think like it's more like I don't know. I think this show, I think Ilya is a little bit like angrier at the beginning, and I think we see his sadness later on. And it'd be interesting to know, like, was that a a choice from Jacob? Did they play it different ways? Like, did they do a a take where it was like sadder? Um, I only have a few other things. Oh, I do have to mention the she would have loved you scene made me tear up in the book um as well. It I will always I will always cry over she would have loved you.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

Yes, and then um we get more. Oh, I don't know if I'm jumping ahead. I was gonna talk about the end.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

No, we can't, I really don't have much more.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Because we get more of the end. So while the the coming out to the parents doesn't go quite exactly, oh, and in the book, the dad does tell you in a right away.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah, I thought that was interesting. I appreciate that he doesn't say anything.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah, I definitely I like the parents more in the show. Um, they definitely feel more real and developed, but in the book, we drive home with them and Shane is still kind of freaking out, and they're on the porch, and I think a blowjob happens, because why wouldn't it? Um, and then is it like the epilogue where they announce their charity?

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Yeah, the epilogue is the press conference and where like Hayden knows now.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

And this is where I think season two will start, probably, which is like I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

I hope so. And then mm, the copy of Heated Rivalry that we have, because I bought them all on bookshop.org. Don't buy from Amazon. Bookshop.org is amazing. Yeah. Um, but the copy I have has the dinner where Hayden and Jackie come over to, I think it's Shane's house that he bought in Montreal, because it's after like Ilya's already in Ottawa and they like each bought a house, and so like Hayden comes over and you get to see Hayden and Ilya interacting, and it does not go very well.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

I have a feeling Ilya won't be quite as antagonistic in the show.

SPEAKER_00 37:40

I think so. I'm I'm really excited to see what what happens with season two. Yeah, I think. Do we want to talk about our plan for season two? It's time to look to the future. It's time to look to the future. We're we're in it for the long game. Um And they say that in the book. They say it in the book, which I like. I'm like, Rachel, did you already know you were gonna write a sequel? Did that come later? I'd love to know. Wait, did you have like, did you did you have the moment where you're you're all the dots connected and you were like the long game, that's the name of the book. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I I don't know about you, but my plan is to not read the long game until after season two is out.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

I think I want to continue with doing that.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Yeah, yeah. I do too. I just I like I've already been spoiled on some things like plot points that happen, but I really do think I want to see what the show does with it. And then, like we did here, do read the long game afterwards. Um, I'm also going to, I've already read Tough Guy, but I'm going to read Common Goal and Role Model as well. Um, I have all of them. They actually, the the final two books I needed to complete the series just came in today. I wonder if they'll have another book play in season two, like they did with uh I yeah, I wonder how they'll do it because it's it's three books. Um, and like I wonder if how those sh characters will show up, if they'll show up. Um, I mean, Kyle, who we meet in season one of Heated Rivalry, is a main character in um I think in Common Goal. Um, so that's I think that's gonna be interesting. So I don't know if we'll get like one episode or if it'll like be sprinkled throughout. Um, I you know, I do trust the people making the show to do it in a in a good way.

SPEAKER_01 39:23

I am of course nervous because I feel like whenever something blows up and then another season comes to follow, there's so much pressure to stand up to, and they're obviously gonna get much a much bigger budget, and I hope that that is they're not getting a bigger budget.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Jacob's already said the budget's the same for season two.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah. That makes you feel better. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Well, I really, you know, as somebody, as as two people who watched The Pit season two this year. Um yeah, just like I I it it does worry me, but I also just again, I I trust the people making this that like they're hopefully not going to let the hype go to their head. Um just do what you did last time, just do what you did last time. Um, yeah, so that's gonna be really interesting. But I'm planning to read role model and common goal. And then I think maybe as we're like preparing for season two to come out, like we're about to go on hiatus, you're not gonna get episodes from us for a while. But I think like when we get like the like full official trailer for season two, maybe we'll do an episode and maybe we'll do like an episode where we talk about the trailer and then we can talk about maybe like the books between Heated Rivalry and the long game, and like even if you don't read them, I can at least say, like, oh, this is like kind of what we saw. Tell me about it. Yeah, I can tell you about it and tell you like how Ilya shows up and that sort of thing. And then do we want to do week-to-week episodes?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

That's what I think I want to do. It's not something we've done yet, but like releasing episodes right after they're aired and getting our reaction right off the bat and getting to watch along with all of you. I think would be really fun.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

That's gonna be interesting. We'll have to see. I think we'll really have to figure out recording schedule for that. That's gonna be all off mic. You all don't need to hear that, but I'm excited to talk about that. And I'm just I'm excited that we get more of this show. And then um, I know Rachel Reed is working on a third book for Hollinov, like a seventh book in uh the game changer series called Unrivaled. And I do think she had to like take some time away from writing because she has Parkinson's disease. Um, yeah, yeah, which is upsetting. Actually, like the success of Heated Rivalry and like more people buying the books, like helped her get more money so she could pay for her Parkinson's treatment, which I I think that's like great that she was able to do that, but I think that's a failing of society that you have to um hope that the show made from your books does well so you can pay for your treatment for a disease that you should absolutely not have to pay for treatment for, but that's another thing.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Um, but so I do believe that she is she's working on unrivaled. And like I personally think we should all be very patient with Rachel as she writes this book. Writing is very hard. I think for me, if I were her, like the success and the love that Heated Rivalry has gotten would make me feel like nervous about writing a third book. Um, but whenever that comes out, I'm very excited for it. And I think from my understanding, and this could just be a rumor, but I think Connor and Hudson are signed on for three seasons. A third season hasn't been greenlit by the studio, but I think if they do get the green light, I think the actors are already on board for it. So and maybe that came from a conversation with Rachel. Maybe she was already planning on writing a third book for them, and that just kind of worked out. So fingers crossed, hopefully at some point we get three seasons of heated rivalry to love.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

I think they really love what they did, and they obviously really love each other. So I'm I'm so excited to continue to watch their chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

I can't wait to have Hudson Williams and Connor's story back on my screen together. Um, yeah, I'm excited. Um, listeners, we hope you've enjoyed this. Feel free to share this podcast with friends who like heated rivalry. If you like what we had to say, keep an eye on our in our Instagram and our TikTok. Maybe we'll come out with cute little things in the during the hiatus. Yeah, we'll try and post things so you don't miss us too much. And yeah, and then just keep an eye out. Once you hear news that season two is coming, once that trailer has dropped, um, look back in your feed. Um, say stay subscribed.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Um and stay gay.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

There we go. And um, in I think April of next year, we'll see you on the ice. We'll see it for season two.